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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4247843 - 06/02/05 12:07 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I dunno; this is your assertion, not mine. You claim metaphors are processed in the brain. If so, by logical extension, when I die, my soul, without the benefit of a brain, will be unable to grasp metaphors.... I don't buy this.




I do not understand how your statement is by logical extension. Who has defined that a soul was ever able to "grasp" anything? According to your logic, a soul doesn't even exist, so I do not understand how you attempt to refute my claim that the brain is responsible for understanding on a metaphorical level by not buying that your soul will be incapable of "understanding metaphor" after your physical death. :wtf: :lol:

If only logic was something you could ingest, eh? :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4247875 - 06/02/05 12:14 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If you take it on assuming the soul is the brain, you already started out with the soul not existing independently from the brain and therefor must not exist beyond it.

I'm not making any assumptions. I'm only drawing a conclusion from the available data.

But let's play your game. Let's assume the soul exists. (Defined roughly as the place where your incorporeal self exists and which will continue to exist after your body dies).

Now, it follows that when I speak to you metaphorically, the words eventually make it to your soul where you grasp the literal meaning as well as the metaphorical one.

If the AG in your brain is damaged and I again speak to you metaphorically, the words still make their way to your soul as evidenced by your perfect literal interpretation of the words; but try as you may, you cannot grasp the metaphor in those words.

How would you explain this observation using the soul paradigm?




Easy. The damage in the brain won't allow for the soul that understood the humor to express that it did through the same brain that could not process the humor in the first place.

It's like what Markos said. The tools of neuro science can help us to understand the functions of the brain. The tools of the meta physician can help us understand how the functions of the non physical corresponds with the physical.

If you want to understand the non physical soul, you must use the tools of the meta physician. Neuro scientific tools will not be able to detect it. That's why you can't find evidence for it.

It's like you're trying to say that fish do not exists because you have searched high and low with your binoculars in the orange grove and they are not there, case closed.

Of course not. You have to go out of the orange grove and into the water with your scuba gear to find the fish.

A neuro scientist will only find tissues and chemical reactions and electrical impulses. Of course he will never find evidence of a soul there.

Your brain will find the brain in another. Your soul will find the soul in another.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4247878 - 06/02/05 12:15 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

If I say to you, "The walls have ears"...

You are really scaring me! How can that be? Whose ears are they?

*Swami whips head back and forth in a paranoiac frenzy* :shiftyeyes: :oogle:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4247889 - 06/02/05 12:17 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Of course he will never find evidence of a soul there.

Of course, there is no evidence of a soul anywhere. It is a millenia-old superstition based soley (no pun intended) on ignorance.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4247891 - 06/02/05 12:17 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Easy. The damage in the brain won't allow for the soul that understood the humor to express that it did through the same brain that could not process the humor in the first place.

So, when I die, my soul, absent a brain, will be unable to understand humor.  :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4247906 - 06/02/05 12:21 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

exactly! which is one of the reasons i keep coming back to this corporeal world!

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Swami]
    #4247990 - 06/02/05 12:42 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

As I said, some people realize that they are a soul, and if you're not one of 'em, then check your name-calling. If you want to experience yourself as meat-with-mentation then go right ahead, but those of us whose Work is to identify our essential self with consciousness do not appreciate being called "ignorant" by meat-heads.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4248022 - 06/02/05 12:50 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Swami - what if soul is defined in terms of something that does exist? i've seen many definitions for soul so which ones are you talking about when you say it is based in ignorance?

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4248053 - 06/02/05 12:59 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

That reminds me of a Soviet cosmonaut, early in the space-race, who laughingly reported back to his Communist comrades that he saw no god through his capsule's window as he entered space. And for those equally concrete [headed] people who heard this and were disappointed !...they were all equally deceived. GOD IS Real for those of us who call Ultimate Reality GOD, and GOD IS nowhere to be found becuse, like Consciousness, GOD does not occupy space!


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlineajna
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Deviate]
    #4248067 - 06/02/05 01:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

"So, when I die, my soul, absent a brain, will be unable to understand humor."

this has been the hole in your arguement all along, and it's quite a big one. the abilty to understand metaphor and humour is a function of the brain that comes with language and communication, not a function of the soul. when you die your soul will no longer require the abilty to interperet these things, just as before you were born.


--------------------


what i'm listening to: http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/ajnachakra/

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248089 - 06/02/05 01:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Easy. The damage in the brain won't allow for the soul that understood the humor to express that it did through the same brain that could not process the humor in the first place.

So, when I die, my soul, absent a brain, will be unable to understand humor.  :tongue:




Where did you get that conclusion from? That's the opposite of what I said.


Diploid, you have the idea of yourself so tied to your body and brain that it seems you can't even theorize or conceive with imagination for discussions sake that the soul is not your brain or body. I don't know what else to say to help point out that, that's where the flaw in your original post is.

The only way to perceive soul is with the eyes of the soul, not your physical eyeballs. They are not equipped to detect the non physical.
Your inner eye is.

To explore in this area you have to shift from being a physician to a meta-physician. The tools are different and the inner eye is used. What ones sees with it can only be described in metaphors for the purpose of relating essence and energetic structures beyond the physical. That's why you see so many here using metaphors to relate to you that the idea of the soul self is that it is not the body or brain.

I don't care to prove that a soul self exists. Just wanted to point out that your post only proved a physical body can detect physical bodies.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4248091 - 06/02/05 01:09 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

GOD IS Real

How can you be so sure in the absence of any evidence other than your subjective and necessarily biased feeling?

Sometimes I wish I could have absolute faith like that but every time I go there, I'm convinced that I'm just kidding myself.

GOD IS nowhere to be found becuse, like Consciousness, GOD does not occupy space

Music doesn't occupy space either. I believe music exists because it can be detected objectively.

If God is real, why does he play these games? Why not just show up and remove all doubt? What benefit is there to making people struggle with these issues all their life when an omnipotent being could easily alleviate the struggle for truth by simply providing it?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (06/02/05 01:16 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: ajna]
    #4248098 - 06/02/05 01:11 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

when you die your soul will no longer require the abilty to interperet these things

Hmm... sounds kinda boring.  :crazy:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4248102 - 06/02/05 01:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The existence of a soul was posited at around the same time as many other mystical beliefs - ALL of those that could be directly examined turned out to be WRONG, unless one still believes that thunder is God's anger and not colliding super-heated air molecules. This is ignorance.

Let me repeat as this is important: ALL EARLY BELIEFS and EXPLANATIONS concerning the nature of the world that could be empirically challenged WERE IN ERROR; yet some hold the ancients in high-regard as if they were superior beings.

The beliefs that could not be not be directly examined still persist, but with no more basis than the early explanation of thunder.

Take umbrage if you so choose, but anger is not a salient point nor a counter-argument.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (06/02/05 01:20 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4248117 - 06/02/05 01:15 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Where did you get that conclusion from?

OK, let me take through how I get that conclusion with some questions:

Do you think the interpretation of metaphor occurs in the brain or in the soul?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248138 - 06/02/05 01:20 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Sometimes I wish I could have absolute faith like that but every time I go there, I'm convinced that I'm just kidding myself.




It sounds like you have absolute faith in that fact that you are just kidding yourself. :smirk:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblemoog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248140 - 06/02/05 01:21 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

LOL @ this post

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4248144 - 06/02/05 01:22 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I do not understand how your statement is by logical extension. Who has defined that a soul was ever able to "grasp" anything? According to your logic, a soul doesn't even exist, so I do not understand how you attempt to refute my claim that the brain is responsible for understanding on a metaphorical level by not buying that your soul will be incapable of "understanding metaphor" after your physical death. :wtf: :lol:





:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4248153 - 06/02/05 01:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

It sounds like you have absolute faith in that fact that you are just kidding yourself.

I have no faith in anything. Don't you see? If it can't be detected, I don't believe it. That's not faith, that's neutrality.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248160 - 06/02/05 01:26 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I fail to see how any of this has anything to do with existence of spirit/soul


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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