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OnlineAsanteA
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This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition
    #4244246 - 06/01/05 03:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

12 minutes ago the exit poll left almost no room for doubt:


VOTERS- 62%
.
NO----- 63%
YES---- 37%


Even though this was the first exit poll it is almost impossible that the vote can turn towards Yes, given the overwhelming majority of NO-votes.

So, after the French NO, the Dutch NO is a political reality.


THE SHROOMERY -- Faster than CNN :thumbup:

Tune in 1 hour after this edit to get the definitive figures.


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Edited by Asante (06/01/05 03:36 PM)


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OnlineAsanteA
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Asante]
    #4244508 - 06/01/05 04:46 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We just received the figures for 22:30 PM local time


VOTERS --- 62%
COUNTED -- 72.6%

NO ------- 62.2%
YES ------ 37.8%

60-65% VOTED AGAINST THE PROPOSED EUROPEAN CONSTITUTION


The Dutch prime minister JP Balkenende has declared to retract the motion for approval and honour the clear Dutch NEE outcome of the referendum.


.


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Edited by Asante (06/01/05 04:48 PM)


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Asante]
    #4244544 - 06/01/05 04:53 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Wouldn't the European Constitution have made reefer and hookers illegal?


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: cb9fl]
    #4244565 - 06/01/05 04:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

no


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OnlineAsanteA
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: cb9fl]
    #4244572 - 06/01/05 05:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wouldn't the European Constitution have made reefer and hookers illegal?




Debatable! the treaty calkled for an "unified stance of Europe against the harm of drugs" and the dutch with 3.3% of the vote are the ONLY ones with semi-legal weed!


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: exclusive58]
    #4244594 - 06/01/05 05:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

the construction of the european union is now put to a full stop. now we're back to the treaty of Nice that was made in 2001.

its true that the construction was going a little bit too fast though.

but i don't think that any other constitution will be better than this one. its just that it was a bad timing for asking people's opinion on an economical treaty that goes beyond most people's ability to comprehend, given that pretty much everyone is unstatified with the economical situation of their country. the circumstances had nothing going for the treaty.

but at least the NO vote created a national political crisis in france, and i think it will have the same effect in the netherlands.

i've heard a political analyicist saying that its almost like if we were in a pre-revolutionary period.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Asante]
    #4244662 - 06/01/05 05:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Sad day....


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: exclusive58]
    #4244669 - 06/01/05 05:21 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
but i don't think that any other constitution will be better than this one.



You Europeans can't do better than 400 pages of bureaucratic empowerment? Sad, very sad.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
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Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Annom]
    #4244687 - 06/01/05 05:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Utrecht is the only intellectual big city in Holland.

51.1% Yes
48.9 No

Utrecht  :thumbup: :grin:


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Annom]
    #4244748 - 06/01/05 05:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Just give them a little more time to re-draft the proposal to give you and france some goodies and you'll be back in. E.U consititution is a monster waiting to happen.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: looner2]
    #4244768 - 06/01/05 05:40 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Most people here don't care about the content.... They vote on feeling.



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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Annom]
    #4244898 - 06/01/05 06:10 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
Most people here don't care about the content.... They vote on feeling.



Well, that explains the rampant socialism.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Annom]
    #4244929 - 06/01/05 06:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
Utrecht is the only intellectual big city in Holland.



Whatever rationalizations make you feel better. I'm sure there are many Netherlanders who would take issue with your opinion - apparently a majority.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Asante]
    #4244970 - 06/01/05 06:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I don't really know enough about the situation (nor do I live there) to say one way or another about the situation. I'd like to hear a Dutch 'Shroomers take on this, however.....


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4244993 - 06/01/05 06:31 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think W_S is a Dutch shroomer, and he said he was against the EU constitution and I assume is happy that it failed.


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Offlineivi
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Asante]
    #4247003 - 06/02/05 06:35 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Basically I think that if the parliament is what votes for the constitution, the answer is yes, if the vote is given to the people, the answer is no. In my country it's the parliament which just said "Jaa" to the constitution with 71 vote, but AFAIK it doesn't matter as in order to accept the new constitution all 25 EU countries must say yes. If a referendum took place, the answer would most likely be no or a very very scarce yes.

As to me, this is one matter where I really have no opinion. I have no idea whatsoever what the constitution says :lol: If there was a referendum in my country (I'm kinda pissed that only in a couple of countries people get to vote) I would definatly have a look at the actual document and make up my mind based on facts. If I voted according to the "feeling", I'd probably say no as I'm eurosceptic.


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Edited by ivi (06/02/05 07:00 AM)


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OnlineAsanteA
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Ravus]
    #4247024 - 06/02/05 06:56 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm very happy it failed.
Annom said people voted on feeling but most people polled gave europe-specific reasons for their NEE votes.

I'm for AN Europe-constitution but not this one. Holland is the #6 economy (of 25 nations) and pays most per capita, yet has a mere 3.3% of the vote while Great Britain has for instance 13.2% of the vote but hasnt even adopted the euro currency yet.

We are a small wealthy nation. The euro-constitution strictly rules that european citizens have *completely* unrestricted right of settlement and free flow of capital. This means that we'll probably get a lot of economic refugees who'll come here to earn money and then take that money with them out of holland, while not participating in society, nor learning the language because they do not come to participate in our society.
This will cause unemployment, lower wages, economic loss, even worse shortage of affordable housing and social unrest and considering the level of organized crime in eastern europe, a crimewave.

At the same time you will have the big corporations closing their factories here and move them to the low-income nations, causing even bigger economic loss and unemployment. Small towns rely on big companies. If these move out to make a bigger buck without any transition the people of that community will face quite some hardships.

If (federal) Europe gets a stronger hold over the nations and tosses them all into a blender you will lose unique features that give countries their distinctive features. Throw a tasty meal in the blender and you'll end up with barf.

Many small French farmers pulled the tits of their goats and made the most delicious cottage-made cheeses in a myriad of flavors. Because of european sanitary regulations 99/100 local cheeses may not be marketed anymore because you might get the runs.

"Europe" subsidizes large-scale farming. For the Third World this is nothing less than a trade embargo that is *killing* them, the European consumer gets fucked in the store and on the tax form, and inefficient farms and those who raise inefficient crops are kept running.
The African farmer gets $5 for a 100lb bag of organic millet. He starves, we take it to Europe *and feed it to the pigs and cattle* :mad2: and when I want to buy millet to make couscous I get to pay the same fucking $5 for a two pound bag grown in lessay Germany that is full of pesticides and traces of industrial waste :mad:
Europe is conning the Third World, its overcharging the European consumer and allows inept farmers to compete with efficient farmers.

Now i'm going to come off anti-american, i'm sure..
The USA is going to hell in a handbasket. Its becoming increasingly similar to a dictatorship with zero freedom for its people and thus no future until a costly revolution ensues.
When we're already tied to you guys by NATO and the UN I personally don't like a constitution that allies us further with America who, excuse me, tries to pluck us like a chicken for being a competitor economy. You've got a "The Hague Act" in American Law that states you will invade my Holland, and shoot our marines, to liberate an US soldier tried for warcrimes by the International Peace Tribunal that everybody but the US and rogue nations uphold.
Invade MY country to let war criminals go free because they're USA?!
I feel as one with many Americans but FUCK YOUR GOVERNMENT and fuck it with a concrete dildo on a ten foot pole from behind a bulletproof shield. :mad:

Next stop. Holland has "coffeeshops" who sell weed and hash and "smartshops" who sell fresh shrooms and other psychedelicatessen to the general public. The weed situation is going on for 25 years and mushrooms are sold for 10 years and this is FINE.
But! The Constitution says "Europe must take a united stance and unified action against the harms caused by drugs.
...I think the 96.7% majority will do it the Dutch way, don't you? :rolleyes:

They all swear by high and low that Dutch policy will remain but even our current conservative government wants to be rid of it and our prime minister said: "my party stands for illegalization of cannabis".
Just wait when holland gets thrown into the euro-blender :frown:


"Europe" conferences alternately in Brussels and Strassburg. That travelling back and forth, no lie, costs the European taxpayer $250.000.000 anually while it serves no rational purpose except having Strassburg host the conferences.
I SPIT ON A GOVERNMENT THAT KNOWINGLY WASTES 0.25 BILLION OF TAX MONEY TO SUCK EACHOTHERS DICKS :mad2:
They should go to the Red Lights District and have that done professionally for $25 :mad:


I'm all for a constitution, but not THIS constitution and I celebrated the Dutch NEE as much as the French NON. (I drank less tho :wink:)
My bet is that the constitution will be changed a bit to give more autonomy to the nations great and small, hopefully they'll get more social and less business oriented too, and then the Constitution v1.1 will be passed, and if its less federal and more social I'll pitch my tent at the voting point to be first in line to vote YES for the v1.1

If you make the people of europe happier, and the surrounding second- and third world happier, you retain individuality and autonomy of nations AND you make it economically viable (and you can!) than that is first choice over a faster growth of the economy that is only felt by the wealthy 1% of the population anyway.


.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: Asante]
    #4249173 - 06/02/05 07:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You know absolutely nothing about America. Nothing.


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OfflineOnlyScarsRemain
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4249283 - 06/02/05 07:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It sounds as if he knows more about America than do most Americans.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: This just in: Holland REJECTS the proposed European Constitition [Re: OnlyScarsRemain]
    #4249320 - 06/02/05 07:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Right.


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