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Offlinelepiota
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suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic)
    #4243250 - 06/01/05 08:55 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

we're at day 6 of my little experiment about the best sugars we can use in liquid cultures. i have tried beet sugar (=common white table sugar), cane sugar (brownish), fructose and honey. all in a 3% solution, all in 200ml water, all inoculated with 1ml spore solution from the same siringe.
this is a pic taken at day 6:



at the moment the experiment is demonstrating what we already knew: honey is the fastest colonizing sugar, but cane sugar is also performing well.
on the other hand, i'm having poor results with both beet sugar and fructose.
so, if you don't have honey go for cane sugar!


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Edited by lepiota (06/01/05 09:06 AM)


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4243282 - 06/01/05 09:30 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Where is dextrose?

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OfflineShdwstr
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: HippieChick]
    #4243288 - 06/01/05 09:35 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

... and Karo,
... and Malt extract,
... and  :smirk:


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Shdwstr]
    #4243303 - 06/01/05 09:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Kind of like saying Coca-Cola is the best without even trying Pepsi, Sprite, 7-Up, Sunkist, so on and so on.

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Peace,Love and Happiness
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Offlinelepiota
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: HippieChick]
    #4243335 - 06/01/05 10:06 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

karo is an american thing, it is not in shops in europe!
i can't find malt extract anywhere and dextrose is too expensive (they only sell it for body builders in big packs)
this is an experiment to find the best sugar among those i can find in my house!


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4243337 - 06/01/05 10:07 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

... and pepsi sucks :smile:


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4243404 - 06/01/05 10:41 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Good experiment. I planned on trying normal sugar (sucrose) myself. I have grown with straight glucose too which showed very little growth, but it did work. Malt extract is expensive for me too, available in health food shops or brewing suppliers. It is nice to be able to use something straight out of the press. Honey works well for me.
Brown or unrefined sucrose will have molasses in it which has been mentioned in published texts about making liquid cultures for mushroom flavouring, so I thought it would work well.
Small packs of brown sugar can be picked up and sometimes have the weight on them which is useful for people without scales or with inaccurate scales at the gram level.

I think apple juice may work too.


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: blackout]
    #4243469 - 06/01/05 11:05 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

by the way, what's the best brewing malt extract used for LC and agar? liquid or powdered? light, amber or dark?


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4243497 - 06/01/05 11:13 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lepiota said:
karo is an american thing, it is not in shops in europe!
i can't find malt extract anywhere and dextrose is too expensive (they only sell it for body builders in big packs)
this is an experiment to find the best sugar among those i can find in my house!




A damn good experiment if I say so. Thanx for sharing. :thumbup:


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4243536 - 06/01/05 11:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lepiota said:
by the way, what's the best brewing malt extract used for LC and agar? liquid or powdered? light, amber or dark?




LIGHT DRY MALT.....has done wonders fot me.


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: agar]
    #4243554 - 06/01/05 11:31 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i have found a shop near my house who has it. maybe i'll make a larger experiment using also dextrose, malt extract, pure sucrose and... pepsi! :smile:
then, i'll also try varius mixture, any hints?


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4243568 - 06/01/05 11:38 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Send me a Pm,lets see if we can get you a little bit of dextrose :grin:

-Gnostic


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OfflineMindzpore
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4243615 - 06/01/05 11:55 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

same here, no karo. but something called muscovado sugar (looks brown). and sugar made from sugarbeets. maby you want to try those.

also maby try the water that you have boiled pasta in, and why not a a light coffe solution.


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Mindzpore]
    #4243622 - 06/01/05 11:58 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

the list grows larger and larger... i'll make 12 jars next time!


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Mindzpore]
    #4243627 - 06/01/05 12:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mindzpore said:
why not a a light coffe solution.



Good idea, I would put a small bit of sucrose (table sugar) in it. I think the only problem with sucrose is the lack of nutrients, most people will have instant coffee and sugar.


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4243661 - 06/01/05 12:15 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Denatured beer & apple juice will grow a healthy culture.


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OfflineSammy
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: agar]
    #4243664 - 06/01/05 12:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

you guys will think of anything!!!

sam


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OfflineShdwstr
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4243670 - 06/01/05 12:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

IGnosticAbhorI said:
Send me a Pm,lets see if we can get you a little bit of dextrose :grin:

-Gnostic




Now that's a twist... shipping a bag of white powder to Europe...
That should raise some eyebrows  :lol:


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Shdwstr]
    #4243675 - 06/01/05 12:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

what do you mean by 'denatured' beer, agar?


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Shdwstr]
    #4243677 - 06/01/05 12:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shdwstr said:
Quote:

IGnosticAbhorI said:
Send me a Pm,lets see if we can get you a little bit of dextrose :grin:

-Gnostic




Now that's a twist... shipping a bag of white powder to Europe...
That should raise some eyebrows  :lol:




:shrug:

Yeah...lol...oh well...

Hey Agar, didnt you do something w/ beer and apple juice last time?

I remeber reading something like that and laughed and thought about Drunk Mushrooms...lol

-Gnostic


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4243679 - 06/01/05 12:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

1 : DEHUMANIZE
2 : to deprive of natural qualities : change the nature of: as a : to make (alcohol) unfit for drinking (as by adding an obnoxious substance) without impairing usefulness for other purposes b : to modify the molecular structure of (as a protein or DNA) especially by heat, acid, alkali, or ultraviolet radiation so as to destroy or diminish some of the original properties and especially the specific biological activity
intransitive senses


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4243688 - 06/01/05 12:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lepiota said:
what do you mean by 'denatured' beer, agar?




Flat beer....as in let the alc evap & carbonation go flat.


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Offlinebarisk
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: agar]
    #4243761 - 06/01/05 12:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

lepiota you say %3 percent honey in 200 ml water.Do you mean 6 ml honey in 200 ml water or 6 gr honey in 200 ml water ?
Thanks...


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: barisk]
    #4243807 - 06/01/05 01:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yup good question. i put 6gr of the sugars, 6ml of honey.
6ml of honey must be a little more than 6gr.
it was 3% weight for dry sugars, 3% volume for honey.
this probably send the whole experiment to shit.


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4243990 - 06/01/05 02:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You've prolly got this in your cabinet right now. Although it's a dark colored substance, still works rather well. This is at 8 days after a multispore knock up. It's Pure Vanilla Extract from McCormicks. I've never seen growth like this at 8 days IME's with trying out new nutrients for LC's. Today is day 10 and the mycelium has grown another 20% or so since this pic 2 days ago.






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OfflineMindzpore
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Hotnuts]
    #4247773 - 06/02/05 01:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

what about boiling and straining some type of bran? should get some slow nutes into the water.


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Mindzpore]
    #4247829 - 06/02/05 02:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You know somethin. The point of the experiment was to see if indeed cultures could thrive with minimal sugars and to see if the colonization rates increased after innoculations. I was really surprised at the results. I've got another culture that has minimal sugars and is loaded with Tryptophan for all peops that believe this amino acid increases potency. We'll see how it goes. This type off extract in this experiment is basically sugar free, but does contain minimal amounts of corn syrup. It's hard to say if a bran or grain nutrient extraction alone could grow out and perform this well. There's only one way to find out. Get to work my man! This is far from over though. It's now day 11 on this particular culture. I need another 30 days to make sure there are nutrients left for the mycelium to survive. But I will tell ya that the mycelium has grown another 10-15% in 3 days. :thumbup:


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4247972 - 06/02/05 02:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

is that a blue angelfish in that fructose jar? ;-)


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: myndreach]
    #4270611 - 06/08/05 04:51 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

***UPDATE***

colonization stopped / failed with both fructose and beet sugar.
here's a pic of cane sugar vs honey at day 13.



the mycelium ball in honey is MUCH bigger, but i think that the liquid in the cane sugar jar might be a good inoculant as well.

next experiment will involve dextrose, malt extract, corn starch and vanilla.


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4270628 - 06/08/05 05:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Did the beet sugar have any growth at all?

I think corn starch may need to be pc'd and will end up cloudy so it will be hard to see what is going on, are you pcing all these?
vanilla is very expensive.


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4270640 - 06/08/05 05:05 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lepiota said:

... and pepsi sucks :smile:




no doubt!~

gimme a Coke!~


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Roadkill]
    #4270659 - 06/08/05 05:13 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

in beet sugar water the spores have just grown a little white "areola" around them, not more than that.
i'm going to PC averything, of course.
i'm not using pure vanilla, but vanilla sugar (which you use in cakes etc). maybe i could try also vanilla-aromatized yeast (the yeast you use in cakes)... they cost nothing to me because i have them at home already :smile:


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: lepiota]
    #4270842 - 06/08/05 08:20 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You could use some extacted potato juice too. Just take 1 potato and chop it into small pieces. Then just let the pieces simmer on low on the stove top for a couple or few hours. Use about 600-700 mills of H20. Simmer until the potatoes turn brown and look spent. Then after you let it cool, strain the contents into a coffee filtered jar. It's easy. I use this juice for petris with cardboard. Try it with some spores. I'd bet it would work and colonize good. You could always add that one to your experiment?


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Hotnuts]
    #4270850 - 06/08/05 08:41 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Should have used LC's

Can't really say one is "faster" when you have to take into consideration - Germination.

But it's stil la fun experiment :thumbup:

-Gnostic


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4270867 - 06/08/05 08:56 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, should be all from a single cloned LC. All the same % sugars too. But it is still interesting, and who knows, maybe the different cultures do affect the actual germination speed.

Honey still seems the easiest choice, I have been reading more about bee pollen causing good fast myc growth, and it has natural anti-bacterial properties. I have yet to hear somebody who cant buy any too! only downside is clarity but it you boil and let settle you can decant it into another jar, or else start off with clear honey


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: blackout]
    #4270869 - 06/08/05 09:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

maybe the different cultures do affect the actual germination speed.




Far as I know, spores mating into hypeas have nothing to do with it. But it seems logical enough. But then again, I'm not that exp.-ed yet :smirk:

And it should be "Isolated", who cares about clones :cool:

-Gnostic


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: blackout]
    #4271097 - 06/08/05 11:41 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You know somethin? My pal at Topia does a lot of work under the scope. He says spore germination starts almost immediately when added to a nutrient. He did a karo slide if i'm remembering correctly, lookin for clamp connections and lord only knows what else. LOL! And he was even surprised to see the results of how fast psilocybe spore germination was. It's pretty cool IMO. Now the tedious part is getting the germinated spore to perform at optimal speeds for colonizing. There's a lot of factors that are involved with that part though. Sub-strain aggression, the nutrient itself, enviromental shit and lord knows what else.


Edited by hotnutz (06/08/05 11:42 AM)


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: Hotnuts]
    #4271381 - 06/08/05 01:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hotnutz said:
He says spore germination starts almost immediately when added to a nutrient.



maybe with fresh spores. Some guy had photos of a pressurised jar with 21year old spores he was trying to hydrate.


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Re: suitable sugars for LC (experiment with pic) [Re: blackout]
    #4271604 - 06/08/05 02:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well of couse. LOL! But how many people do you know that have 21 year old spores? Not too many.  :wink: That was obviously after the spores were hydrated for them to germinate. :smirk: LOL! WTF!


Edited by hotnutz (06/08/05 02:08 PM)


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