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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Pressure Cooker, Wild Bird Seed

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OfflineMych
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simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC..
    #4242116 - 06/01/05 12:00 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I know the typical process for grain is to soak it for 12-24 hours, then simmer (if you are using this method to get the water into the grain), then load the jars and PC it.

However, washing out the grain for about 30min, then simmering it and loading the jars up.. let them stit for 24 hours.. then PC them. Would there be any disadvantage to this? I figure you are spacing out the periods of heating and this might actually help to sterilize things even more.


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Invisiblepoboy
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. *DELETED* [Re: Mych]
    #4242169 - 06/01/05 12:12 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

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Offlinexburn
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: poboy]
    #4242202 - 06/01/05 12:22 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

there are two reasons for soaking for 24 hours. Bacterial endospores will have germinated in that time and will be killed by the PC. And more importantly it can take anywhere from 12 to 36 hours for WBS to absorb all its water. the watercontent will be right when it stops absorbing water


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OfflineMych
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: xburn]
    #4242215 - 06/01/05 12:25 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

did you guys even read the post? i never said "why soak" i said why not change the order of: soak, simmer, PC to: simmer, "soak" (aka let sit in the jars), then pc


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: Mych]
    #4242260 - 06/01/05 12:36 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Mainly because its difficult to keep the correct water content after the simmer..if you let them soak, theyll continue absorbing water quickly until to moist. If you drain them and let them sit they can dry out. Its just easier to do it in that order, or try to eliminate steps.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinexburn
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: Mych]
    #4242269 - 06/01/05 12:38 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mych said:

However, washing out the grain for about 30min, then simmering it and loading the jars up.. let them stit for 24 hours.. then PC them.




your grain would not be soaking in very much water the way you explain this. Now if the jars were full of water and you drained them off before PC then you'd get the max benefeit. But if you're only taking grain from the simmer and no water into the jars then thiers no real point to letting them sit in nothing. I might be misssing something and dont mean to fight. So dont take it that way please

also on topic the reason i would simmer last is it gets that last little bit of water in their as opposed to the other way. I am sure you could do it either way. And if you let the jars sit after being simmered the endospores would germinate because they are damp. the real question is whether your water content would be correct


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OfflineArcanePerception
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: Mych]
    #4242287 - 06/01/05 12:42 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I do pretty much what you are suggesting I put the wbs in a pot cover with water then bring to a boil for 5mins(I make big batches so it is on the burner for like 20 min before it boils then let it sit in a cool oven for about 24 hours strain for a half hour to an hour load into the jars and pc. works fine for me. but if you use popcorn or cracked corn make sure you rinse it really good while it is still hot or you will get a starchy sticky mess


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OfflineArcanePerception
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: ArcanePerception]
    #4242304 - 06/01/05 12:46 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I do it that way because I have only a few hours after work till and I dont want to be up all night simmering rinsing straining and pcing all at the same time


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OfflineMych
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: xburn]
    #4242368 - 06/01/05 12:59 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

xburn said:
Quote:

Mych said:

However, washing out the grain for about 30min, then simmering it and loading the jars up.. let them stit for 24 hours.. then PC them.




your grain would not be soaking in very much water the way you explain this. Now if the jars were full of water and you drained them off before PC then you'd get the max benefeit. But if you're only taking grain from the simmer and no water into the jars then thiers no real point to letting them sit in nothing. I might be misssing something and dont mean to fight. So dont take it that way please

also on topic the reason i would simmer last is it gets that last little bit of water in their as opposed to the other way. I am sure you could do it either way. And if you let the jars sit after being simmered the endospores would germinate because they are damp. the real question is whether your water content would be correct




i was mainly going after the damp = still germinating the endospores.
if you simmer, you are going to kill and weaking alot of stuff AND have the correct water ratio. then you load the jars and let them sit for 24 hours. the water ratio is already as you want it in there and its not going to change. the existing water will germinate whatever is left over, and then into the PC it goes to take down whatever endospores are left.

at the same time the simmer will kill the WBS and keep the actual seeds from germinating while you let them sit


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OfflineMych
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: ArcanePerception]
    #4242374 - 06/01/05 01:00 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ArcanePerception said:
I do it that way because I have only a few hours after work till and I dont want to be up all night simmering rinsing straining and pcing all at the same time




this is my main reason too. what is your contam rate with this method.. and how do the jars perform compared to the standard method?


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: Mych]
    #4242384 - 06/01/05 01:03 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have had jars germinate after being simmered, loaded and sat until the next day. I dont know why, maybe simmered low temp or something..just a thought..

Try out a small batch and see if it works. No one can really tell you because everyone does everything differently. Some may have success with it, some may not. You may, you may not. Give it a shot. I did still PC that grain that germed and shot it up and it worked fine. Grains pretty tough if you get the water right.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMych
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4242419 - 06/01/05 01:12 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
I have had jars germinate after being simmered, loaded and sat until the next day. I dont know why, maybe simmered low temp or something..just a thought..

Try out a small batch and see if it works. No one can really tell you because everyone does everything differently. Some may have success with it, some may not. You may, you may not. Give it a shot. I did still PC that grain that germed and shot it up and it worked fine. Grains pretty tough if you get the water right.




good to know


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Offlinepsilocyben
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4242469 - 06/01/05 01:21 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

one ver4y good point that RR had made the other day was that if you simmer your grains, you need to let them get as dry as possible, as they have all of the moisture necessary on the inside of the kernel.

have had some slight variations in colonization times.
could be attributed to strain, or, as i suspect, water content :shiftyeyes:

most recently, after a lengthy (not necessary, but the better part of a day) soak, they were simmered until they had achieved the correct moisture content.
they were left in a giganto-strainer, and turned every-so-often to allow them to dry slightly.
this took place for the better part of an hour.

i'll start a thread if the results are positive.
:zoom:


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Invisiblepoboy
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. *DELETED* [Re: Mych]
    #4242507 - 06/01/05 01:31 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by poboy

Reason for deletion: d



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Burn the land and boil the sea but you can't take the sky from me.


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OfflineMych
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: psilocyben]
    #4242534 - 06/01/05 01:38 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyben said:
one ver4y good point that RR had made the other day was that if you simmer your grains, you need to let them get as dry as possible, as they have all of the moisture necessary on the inside of the kernel.

have had some slight variations in colonization times.
could be attributed to strain, or, as i suspect, water content :shiftyeyes:

most recently, after a lengthy (not necessary, but the better part of a day) soak, they were simmered until they had achieved the correct moisture content.
they were left in a giganto-strainer, and turned every-so-often to allow them to dry slightly.
this took place for the better part of an hour.

i'll start a thread if the results are positive.
:zoom:




i hope to see this thread :smile:
i think a little extra water will be ok since the pressure cooker will cause them to absorb a few percentages more of water. but the 20-30min straining time is definately needed.


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Offlinepsilocyben
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: poboy]
    #4242551 - 06/01/05 01:43 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:what:
:pottymouth: :eyeball: :razz:
:idea:
:spliff::thumbup:
:noway:
:yesnod:
:nonono:
:japsmile::spliff:
:hug:
:twirlyface::zoom:


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Offlineblackout
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: Mych]
    #4242992 - 06/01/05 04:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mych said:
if you simmer, you are going to kill and weaking alot of stuff AND have the correct water ratio. then you load the jars and let them sit for 24 hours.



I have done this before. It makes perfect sense to me. It is sort of like fractional sterilization.
Normally you heat for 30mins at 100C incubate for a day, repeat 2 more times.
Some endospores are germinating when moisture is added. The heat kills growing ones and "activates/wakens" the more "dormant" spores, which will germinate during the next incubation. After 3 days you are meant to have germinated and killed most.

By simmering first you are heating to boiling so you are probably ending up with more endospores germinating than if they were in cold water. Also the heat is incubating the spores giving them more of a chance to germinate.

I left mine to drain overnight.

To get even more germinating, you could soak 24hrs, simmer, drain for 24hrs.


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OfflineArcanePerception
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Re: simmer, let sit 12 hours, then PC.. [Re: blackout]
    #4246187 - 06/02/05 12:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Mych sry I didnt get back to you earlier like I said dont got much free time my contam rate is about 1 jar every other batch I do 7 jar batches and knock up with liquid culture (microwave Karo in a plastic peanut butter jar)no glove box quart jars are done in about 12 days and if I use cracked corn about 8 but cracked corn has to be just right. overcooked and nothing grows, undercooked and just have trouble finishing and if they arent washed very very well with HOT water it clumps up and contams like crazy wbs is much easier


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Pressure Cooker, Wild Bird Seed

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