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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
forgivensess and revenge
    #4241616 - 05/31/05 09:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I just wached some documentary on TV about a guy fro Seattle (is the spelling right?) who was called something like "killer from green river" or "green river killer" or something like that. He killed more than 50 (so he says) girls.

On the trial, loved ones of the victims were alowed to talk to the guy.
So a couple of them said some mean stuff like: "burn in hell you son of a bitch" and "may god have no mercy on your soul" and the "public" aplaud, judge suggested that it is not appropriate in court room, and then a woman came and said: "i forgive you" and nobody claped their hands.

How come revenge, violence and hate is a more cool thing than forgiveness even if it is perhapse not complete forgiveness but at least a try?

One of the people said something like: I'd kill you, and make you suffer the same way those girls did if it weren't for all these people around here

So why does he judge him when he would do the same thing?
If this guy is for real, then both of them are killers of the same kind, only different in quantity


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4241628 - 05/31/05 09:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

displays of mercy tend to shame people who don't have inclination towards mercy within their heart

displays of anger and revengelust make those people feel good and excitedhorny who have anger and revengelust in their hearts

it's why Jerry Springer gets good ratings. looking down on others who have shittinessdisease worse than you makes you feel better! (and paradoxically increases your own shittynessdisease)


--------------------
youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4241655 - 05/31/05 10:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I saw that show a few months back. I hear you. When that woman who forgave him said, "You can't hold on to me any more" I applauded inside myself as she figured out the key of forgiveness that unlocks the prisons we put ourselves in when we hate, want revenge, live in guilt or blame.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4241677 - 05/31/05 10:13 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup: what does that tell me? The best applauds are the silent ones that you can't hear  :sun:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineNextGenHippie
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4241691 - 05/31/05 10:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Wow... last time I was here, I was in High School. kudos to the forgiver. Personally, I think revenge and such takes way too much work, for some reason:bong: :bong: :bong:. I can't be angry at somebody for any longer than a day or so, any more than that, and I just run outta steam. Then I'm like "Yeah, whatever. Let 'em live their lives." kinda thing.


--------------------
[pot]Think left and think right[pot]
[pot]and think low and think high[pot]
[pot]Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try[pot]
-Dr. Seuss


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OfflineDoom
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Registered: 11/23/04
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: NextGenHippie]
    #4243345 - 06/01/05 10:11 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

NextGenHippie said:
Wow... last time I was here, I was in High School. kudos to the forgiver. Personally, I think revenge and such takes way too much work, for some reason:bong: :bong: :bong:. I can't be angry at somebody for any longer than a day or so, any more than that, and I just run outta steam. Then I'm like "Yeah, whatever. Let 'em live their lives." kinda thing.





and I thank the lord that you will never get into a position of social influence.

*oh, there goes that guy again, raping and murdering children...huh..whatevs..*


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4243466 - 06/01/05 11:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Good post. Hate begets hate, love begets love. That's my opinion from my life experience. This example was extreme, but you can find how this works in your life every day.

Oh Doom,  :grin: You can forgive someone so as to be able to let go of it, and still dispense justice to protect the innocent.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDoom
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: Icelander]
    #4243572 - 06/01/05 11:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

so you forgive him, but still lock him in a concrete cell and revoke his freedom? thats an interesting form of forgiveness.

or is *forgiveness* actually just a wholly selfish act which works to preserve ones psychological health?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: Doom]
    #4243655 - 06/01/05 12:13 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Doom said:
so you forgive him, but still lock him in a concrete cell and revoke his freedom? thats an interesting form of forgiveness.

or is *forgiveness* actually just a wholly selfish act which works to preserve ones psychological health?




Good questions!  I'm not really an advocate of just locking people away with out effort at rehab. Often the kind of inprisonment used just makes things worse. Still if someone is murdering people I want to disable that behavior. And it's possible that some are beyond rehab in any major way.  :shrug: I'm not saying you forgive their actions and not make him/her accountable for them.

Forgiveness is a selfish act. YES! It benefits yourself, and that's good. There may be a secondary benefit to the one being forgiven and that's icing on the cake. :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (06/01/05 12:15 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: Doom]
    #4244625 - 06/01/05 05:14 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Doom said:
so you forgive him, but still lock him in a concrete cell and revoke his freedom? thats an interesting form of forgiveness.

or is *forgiveness* actually just a wholly selfish act which works to preserve ones psychological health?




If I knew for sure he was never going to do it again, I'd let him go, he is sorry and apologized. But you never know if he ment it and if he was gever going to do it, so you can put him away just to be sure.
It also serves the purpuse of satisfying the urge for "justice" in the hearts of the masses


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: Icelander]
    #4244638 - 06/01/05 05:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

can you give me an example of what you consider not to be an selfish act?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4244664 - 06/01/05 05:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

donating anonymously is the closest I can think of


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: Icelander]
    #4244668 - 06/01/05 05:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I would let the 'vicitms' make their own judgement about the treatment of the criminal and execute it by their own hands...

Revenge is primarily supposed for precaution...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4244688 - 06/01/05 05:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It makes YOU feel better, so it is selfish by Icelanders definition


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4244690 - 06/01/05 05:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
can you give me an example of what you consider not to be an selfish act?




No I cannot. I do not think such a thing exists. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4244705 - 06/01/05 05:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

When would the chain of revenge stop?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: Icelander]
    #4244718 - 06/01/05 05:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

if there is no such thing as a non-selfish act, then all acts are not selfish either because then selfish does not exist (no oposite)


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4244742 - 06/01/05 05:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't say they don't exist. I just said I cannot give you an example of one. (Can you?) And I don't think that unselfish acts are posible in human form.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: Icelander]
    #4244833 - 06/01/05 05:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Then in what form are they possible? animal? animals can be neither selfish or not selfish, because they just do what they do without thinking about it


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Loc: underbelly
Re: forgivensess and revenge [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4244924 - 06/01/05 06:14 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

No not any being I'm aware of. That's what I'm saying. I don't know. We all act in our own self interest. To do otherwise seems impossible. Anyone got an example of selflessness?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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