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OfflineSneezingPenis
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IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss)
    #4238248 - 05/30/05 11:52 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

If you were given a choice to either live out the rest of your life, or be put into a coma-like state which could garauntee a prolonged life and pure bliss. Kind of like Vanilla Sky, but without the bad stuff and problems, just a self imposed heaven......which would you pick?

I was thinking about this today and figured probably a huge majority would say to live their regular life, but what does that say about heaven/afterlife? Would this same majority change their mind if I rephrased the question and asked "would you rather live in heaven or hell?".

What does this say about religion and human nature? your thoughts....


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4238301 - 05/31/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

whoa! how did this get 310 views in like 5 minutes?!?


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4238337 - 05/31/05 12:22 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I clicked on it 308 times....!  :lol:

Well, Vanilla Dreams was about Lucid Dreaming....  Others say that they can do this already without paying for it....  As with the movie, Lucid Dreaming/heaven/hell are all in the mind(as far as I have understood)....  In the movie, even being in a lucid dream, he made it a "hell" for himself....  It would appear that one would have to have his mental problems in order before attempting something like this....(?)

I am not there yet(lucid dreaming), so all of this is speculation/observation for conversation....


:sun:


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Invisibleflowstone
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4238367 - 05/31/05 12:34 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

What kind of choice is that? You need the ups and downs to be complete. There IS NO pure bliss out there. Anywhere. You're going to go through hell and your going to see heaven. All in the microscopically short life your destined to live, here on Earth. I'd never give this up for anything. This is where I am, and this is who I am. I can't change it and I wouldn't.
What is bliss anyways. Bliss eh? THIS IS SO BLISSFUL! *as you enter your bliss a buss hits you at 60MPH crushing your cranium*


--------------------
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OfflineKerr
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4238431 - 05/31/05 01:01 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I was thinking about this today and figured probably a huge majority would say to live their regular life, but what does that say about heaven/afterlife? Would this same majority change their mind if I rephrased the question and asked "would you rather live in heaven or hell?".





I think that most folks for that matter have nothing to compare their everyday lives too. I am sure if they had felt the bliss during an MDMA, or psilocybin trip then maybe they would change their minds.
And in terms of living in heaven or hell, well that is left up to the individual as to what they perceive as such. One man's heaven could be another man's hell. :smile:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: Kerr]
    #4238686 - 05/31/05 02:35 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

well, I am talking about on a personal level. I dont think even the most fundamental christian can really think heaven is one location that is perfect for everyone. If the majority of people would rather have the ups and downs of life, and not have everything perfect, be it a constant orgy or a hammock in the bahamas, then how could anyone want heaven, or even strive to be accepted into heaven?
Sounds to me like we actually have perfection in this life, an equal balance of emotions and experiences. image how dull existence would become if everything went your way, there was never any sadness and everyone was always happy?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4238687 - 05/31/05 02:35 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

btw ryankerr, i really like your signature quote!


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4238716 - 05/31/05 02:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
image how dull existence would become if everything went your way, there was never any sadness and everyone was always happy?



.
In what way would existence be dull if everyone was happy in their own little heaven....?  I invision people all working TOGETHER to make this world a better place instead of striving to be the individual "best" for the moment....


:sun:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4238858 - 05/31/05 04:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

because ignoring all the other avenues of existence to me would thusly cancel out blissfulness. I think evolution and adaptation would have cancelled out sadness and anger if it didnt have some value.
Working together to make this World a better place is so subjective. I mean, who is really going to claim what is a better world? IMO you are living in the best possible world, the only one with the capability of duality. Both the capability to experience heaven and hell.


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4239074 - 05/31/05 08:30 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

A blissful universe means a universe without people in it. Which makes up for a pretty dull universe.

You better start accepting fate. You cannot change anything you havent already changed.

Bliss is emptiness, and you wouldnt even notice it. Please, leave well enough alone.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4239107 - 05/31/05 08:57 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
I dont think even the most fundamental christian can really think heaven is one location that is perfect for everyone.




Yes they can.

The last time I saw my parents, the conversation switched to the afterlife, always a dangerous subject between all of us. They believe I am still a Christian, and I do not do anything to discourage their perceptions. They were talking about how wonderful it will be to finally enter Paradise in Heaven. I said something like, "WEll, I think that heaven and hell are just states of mind." I wanted to add, 'if they exist,' but that would just cause more trouble then it was worth.

My dad got offended and said, "Michelle, the Bible tells us that Heaven is an actual place."

And I was like, "So where is it then? In a galaxy far far away?"

He didn't care for that comment, just said coldly, "I don't have all the answers, Michelle. I just trust in God's Word which is the best any man can do for himself."

And that was that.

So that entire story was just in response to that one comment Psilocyberin. Sorry to derail your thread a little...

As for me, I was thinking about this topic the other day...pondering about how I much I live for the ups and the downs. Sometimes it seems like I purposely create problems for myself to feel a 'down.' And then when I "solve" my non-existent problems, it gives me a feeling of satisfaction, an 'up,' as though I had changed something important, when actually it is just my ego playing games with itself.

In altered states where I experience egodeath, it is like the 'ups' and the 'downs' become one state of mind, joining as one, coming together and yet pulling apart at the same time. It's difficult to explain. I can't put a description on the exact feeling, but it's like simultaneously the opposing feelings are eternally colliding together and ripping apart all in the same moment. I feel bliss and terror at the same time, because they are the same...yet different...and then of course there is a point where there is only awe and nothing else. (for me anyway)

Sorry, I'm sure you guys know it's hard to capture the experience by words.

But I believe that the ups and downs are necessary and I can't say I'd get rid of them in exchange for pure bliss.


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: MOTH]
    #4239114 - 05/31/05 09:02 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Elle, I love you :love:


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: slaphappy]
    #4239158 - 05/31/05 09:32 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

:blush:

Why, thank you.    :heartpump: :inlove:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4239164 - 05/31/05 09:37 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

eMotionALLmotion said:
Well, Vanilla [Sky] was about Lucid Dreaming....




I actually don't think Vanilla Sky was about lucid dreaming at all. Yes, in a literal sense, it was the terminology used... but I relate the entirety of the experience to the pharmaceutical game that the human race has been playing for a while now. Like how you can either take prozac every day and have a mediated state that keeps you from experiencing both the highs AND lows, or you can choose to go unmedicated and embrace life in it's fullest; both the lows and the highs.


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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #4239186 - 05/31/05 09:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't remember much from that movie (wasn't into the subject matter at the time) but it sounds like something I should rewatch.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4239542 - 05/31/05 12:26 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

heaven and hell, is the same thing. it only differ in the view of it..


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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: Gomp]
    #4240006 - 05/31/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

YES!

Our judgments and expectations create heaven and hell.

It is a very narrow perspective which includes only two categories for experience: pleasant/unpleasant.

What if it was just experience?  :heart:


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: IF.... (thoughts on heaven and bliss) [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #4241176 - 05/31/05 07:44 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Quote:

eMotionALLmotion said:
Well, Vanilla [Sky] was about Lucid Dreaming....



.
I actually don't think Vanilla Sky was about lucid dreaming at all. Yes, in a literal sense, it was the terminology used... but I relate the entirety of the experience to the pharmaceutical game that the human race has been playing for a while now. Like how you can either take prozac every day and have a mediated state that keeps you from experiencing both the highs AND lows, or you can choose to go unmedicated and embrace life in it's fullest; both the lows and the highs.



.
Oooops, forgot to proof read....!   
.
I see what you are saying with the medication, as some people cannot handle their own self created "lows" on their own....  And I once had a life that was full of "lows", until I realized "I" was the one creating them for myself in my own mind.... 
.
The way I see things now, "lows" are just eMotional creations from running into a "wall", "hurdle", or problem situations....  If you get to a state of mind where it brings you down (low) because of the mental pressure you create for yourself, it may negatively effect your ability to deal with or solve the actual problem....  If you keep a level head and stay positive about the situation and finding a solution, that "problematic" hurdle/wall can be turned into a stepping stone - by thinking the problem thru to a solution....   
.
The way I have come to know/see it, creating negative emotions (sadness, despair, depression, anger, hate, frustration) in the face of a problem, it gives strength to the actual problem by the person manifesting a negative cloud of eMotion to concentrate on within the mind - instead of working out a solution to the actual problem "wall"....    If you take the negative eMotions out of the equation, the cloud is lifted for you to solve the problem with a clear unclouded mind....  For then the metaphoric wall is kicked over and can be used as a stepping stone.... 
.
At my old job, there was a guy/friend in my engineering group that would consume himself with his own created "walls", and get VERY frustrated, as you could audibly hear him huffing and puffing, and throwing things around in his office from his own negative eMotions - upon finding one of these "problems" he "couldn't solve"....    This went on for years until I figured out why he was having so much trouble....  Then I had a talk with him one day about my negative eMotion cloud theory in relation to problems/walls....  I asked if it was possible for him to just simply let go of the negative feelings he was creating when he hit a "wall"....  He explained that when he got to a point that he couldn't "figure it out", he got frustrated at is lack of ability, and the pressures of the work that was waiting for him to complete just stacked up while he was not able to complete what he was doing....  I asked him not to even think about anything else besides what he was working on, that other stuff will be there to complete after he got done with the task at hand....  There is only so much any person can do in a day, don't worry about the pile of work waiting to be done, take the bites out of the stack when you can, and concentrate on one thing at a time.... 
.
I asked him to take a walk and to clear his mind when he was starting to feel the frustration feeling/cloud coming on - not to even think about the problem for the duration of his walk....    And then come back and just think up different ways of doing things.... 
.
After this simple talk with him, he started being more productive, and asked less of my help....  He was noticeably less frustrated, his attitude change for the better, and he started smiling and joking around more with other people instead of being grouchy, silent, and frustrated all of the time....    And he was a very frustrated person for the many years that I had worked with him - and some people were afraid to work with, or even approach him....
.
Some people just need a simple explanation to help them - if they can understand, embrace, and use it.... 
.
This is what I would call "bliss"....  Creating your own little heaven for yourself in your own mind - free of negative eMotions.... 
.
There are no "lows" created for you, you create that part yourself in your mind....
There are only hurdles waiting to be kicked over into stepping stones.... 
Problems and solutions....    :smile:


:sun:


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