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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: DieCommie]
#14059682 - 03/03/11 12:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
TheThinker said: So what is it about?
Culture, which is a choice.
When did you choose your culture?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Net]
#14059687 - 03/03/11 12:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Net said: I can't help but find screeds against multiculturalism as a kind of code for unspoken (spineless) racism.
I cant help but find that cries of racism are a witch hunt that happen when you have no other way to support your argument. That is a bold accusation you are making, and you have no evidence at all. 
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
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TheThinker said: So what is it about?
Culture, which is a choice.
When did you choose your culture?
I choose it every day, and throughout the day.
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Friskies

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 44
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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TheThinker said: So what is it about?
It's about people winding up feeling segregated, as in France.
It's about the lack of tolerance each culture has for the other.
It's about having to print ballots in over a dozen languages, as in NYC and other larger cities.
It's about having to satisfy each and every person from each and every place, so no-one feels left out.
It's about having to provide translators for people who, despite having lived in another country for years, haven't bothered to learn the dominant language.
When a "multicultural" country, such as France, starts saying it's not working it's time to realize that while maintaining and celebrating your individual culture is all well and good, it's not the be all to end all.
Quote:
Net said: I can't help but find screeds against multiculturalism as a kind of code for unspoken (spineless) racism.
What an unbelievably stupid statement.
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
TheThinker said: So what is it about?
It's about people winding up feeling segregated, as in France.
It's about the lack of tolerance each culture has for the other.
It's about having to print ballots in over a dozen languages, as in NYC and other larger cities.
It's about having to satisfy each and every person from each and every place, so no-one feels left out.
It's about having to provide translators for people who, despite having lived in another country for years, haven't bothered to learn the dominant language.
When a "multicultural" country, such as France, starts saying it's not working it's time to realize that while maintaining and celebrating your individual culture is all well and good, it's not the be all to end all.
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Net said: I can't help but find screeds against multiculturalism as a kind of code for unspoken (spineless) racism.
What an unbelievably stupid statement.
How so?
I happen to agree with that.
-------------------- Stoner extraordinaire
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: DieCommie]
#14059698 - 03/03/11 12:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
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TheThinker said: So what is it about?
Culture, which is a choice.
When did you choose your culture?
I choose it every day, and throughout the day.
Is it hard deciding to speak English on a daily basis?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Nope, thats an easy choice. I choose to speak spanish at the restaurant I frequent, that is a little harder but also pretty easy.
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Net
Official Mr Shoebat Lackey



Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 32
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: It's not the physical characteristics at issue.
What's at issue is starting with overgeneralized assumptions of superiority and then contorting one's view of the world to make it fit, rather than examining the merits of specific qualities of the individual as they actually occur.
The phobic process is the same, regardless of whether it utilizes physical details or cultural details.
So, you're right, whether focused on the physical or the cultural, it is immaterial what is being used as a vehicle for bigotry when the consequences of that fear are indistinguishable from one another.
-------------------- “In all institutions from which the cold wind of open criticism is excluded, an innocent corruption begins to grow like a mushroom - for example, in senates and learned societies” —Friedrich Nietzsche
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: DieCommie]
#14059718 - 03/03/11 12:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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And language is part of culture. My point is that culture, while more mutable than race, is far too complex to reduce to being a "choice." Culture is something you are born into, and you can't just change it overnight.
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TheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Is it hard deciding to speak English on a daily basis?
How many languages do you speak?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
TheThinker said: How many languages do you speak?
One. It's the one my culture speaks.
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TheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Silversoul said: And language is part of culture. My point is that culture, while more mutable than race, is far too complex to reduce to being a "choice." Culture is something you are born into, and you can't just change it overnight.
And yet some think that everyone who comes here should immediately adapt to our culture.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Nevertheless, I reserve the right to judge someone based off of their culture and way of life. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. If they are born into a shitty culture, they cant help that. But if they propagate that culture along, that is their choice and that is their fault. Tradition is not a valid reason or excuse.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Net]
#14059737 - 03/03/11 12:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Net said:
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zappaisgod said: It's not the physical characteristics at issue.
What's at issue is starting with overgeneralized assumptions of superiority and then contorting one's view of the world to make it fit, rather than examining the merits of specific qualities of the individual as they actually occur.
The phobic process is the same, regardless of whether it utilizes physical details or cultural details.
So, you're right, whether focused on the physical or the cultural, it is immaterial what is being used as a vehicle for bigotry when the consequences of that fear are indistinguishable from one another.
My rejection of sharia law is not based on bigotry but on knowledge. Take that stupid shit elsewhere. Leave the kafta.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Friskies]
#14059743 - 03/03/11 12:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Friskies said: I happen to agree with that.
What a surprise.
DieCommie said it well: "I cant help but find that cries of racism are a witch hunt that happen when you have no other way to support your argument. That is a bold accusation you are making, and you have no evidence at all."
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Friskies

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 44
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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No it is not hard to choose to speak English everyday. English is the only language I know. The ONLY one I will EVER know as long as I live in the USA. I do not see the need to speak a different language when OUR COUNTRY'S lang is English.
You wanna talk to me, do it in English. I can not be bothered by someone that comes over here, gets taken in, and can not speak English.
-------------------- Stoner extraordinaire
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Friskies

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 44
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Net said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: It's not the physical characteristics at issue.
What's at issue is starting with overgeneralized assumptions of superiority and then contorting one's view of the world to make it fit, rather than examining the merits of specific qualities of the individual as they actually occur.
The phobic process is the same, regardless of whether it utilizes physical details or cultural details.
So, you're right, whether focused on the physical or the cultural, it is immaterial what is being used as a vehicle for bigotry when the consequences of that fear are indistinguishable from one another.
My rejection of sharia law is not based on bigotry but on knowledge. Take that stupid shit elsewhere. Leave the kafta.
Knowledge of what? Have you ever practiced it? Known it first hand? If not stfu, you know NOTHING
-------------------- Stoner extraordinaire
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
TheThinker said: How many languages do you speak?
One. It's the one my culture speaks.
No. It merely happens to be the one that the majority of the people in your country speaks.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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TheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Net said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: It's not the physical characteristics at issue.
What's at issue is starting with overgeneralized assumptions of superiority and then contorting one's view of the world to make it fit, rather than examining the merits of specific qualities of the individual as they actually occur.
The phobic process is the same, regardless of whether it utilizes physical details or cultural details.
So, you're right, whether focused on the physical or the cultural, it is immaterial what is being used as a vehicle for bigotry when the consequences of that fear are indistinguishable from one another.
My rejection of sharia law is not based on bigotry but on knowledge. Take that stupid shit elsewhere. Leave the kafta.
Nice. Oddly you have the right to not embrace it. Others exercise the right to embrace it. See how that works? I happen to agree with Net.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: DieCommie]
#14059774 - 03/03/11 12:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Nevertheless, I reserve the right to judge someone based off of their culture and way of life. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. If they are born into a shitty culture, they cant help that. But if they propagate that culture along, that is their choice and that is their fault. Tradition is not a valid reason or excuse.
In certain respects I would agree. We obviously can't allow for honor killings or female genital mutilation here, but I think any reasonable person should be able to discern between cultural traditions which are in conflict with liberal democracy and those which simply seem foreign to us. I say let cultures keep their traditions, except for those which harm individual rights.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Friskies]
#14059786 - 03/03/11 12:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Friskies said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Net said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: It's not the physical characteristics at issue.
What's at issue is starting with overgeneralized assumptions of superiority and then contorting one's view of the world to make it fit, rather than examining the merits of specific qualities of the individual as they actually occur.
The phobic process is the same, regardless of whether it utilizes physical details or cultural details.
So, you're right, whether focused on the physical or the cultural, it is immaterial what is being used as a vehicle for bigotry when the consequences of that fear are indistinguishable from one another.
My rejection of sharia law is not based on bigotry but on knowledge. Take that stupid shit elsewhere. Leave the kafta.
Knowledge of what? Have you ever practiced it? Known it first hand? If not stfu, you know NOTHING
No. No. No. I won't. I have no intention of even allowing it and will take arms against it. I have a daughter and I will shoot anybody in the face who tries to impose it here. If you want Sharia law get the fuck out of the US. It is completely and utterly antithetical to everything the US Constitution stands for. It is also a vile and pernicious pestilence on all of humanity but all of humanity is not my problem.
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