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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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People are not required to be bound to their culture in a free society. People can leave their culture and assimilate whenever they want to, especially in America, where they won't stoned to death for doing so. If they stay within their culture, it's because they choose to do so.
Btw, what's wrong with polygamy? Your perception of what is "evil" seems to be heavily rooted in ignorance and ethnocentrism.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Ravus]
#4377828 - 07/06/05 10:01 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think multiculturalism is good, but the immigrants should be forced to learn the language and customs of the country they are entering. They can preserve their culture, even with those stipulations.
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Tao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Ravus]
#4378690 - 07/07/05 02:50 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I always find it interesting to ponder whether SCOTUS was correct to enact forced integration. From my perspective of decades later I believe that this was a major cause of a paradigm shift in racial relations in the U.S., much more than the civil rights movement (though due to my age I have a limit to my perspective). So from a consequentialist viewpoint, I think SCOTUS was right, but were they from a non-consequentialist perspective? Possibly not. It is examples like these why I reject embracing libertarian philosophy as a whole. In most cases, following the guiding principle of non-interference works out for the best in the long run, but there are cases like this where a bit of inteference can make a world of difference.
-------------------- Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Silversoul]
#4379099 - 07/07/05 08:26 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Paradigm said:
"what's wrong with polygamy? Your perception of what is "evil" seems to be heavily rooted in ignorance and ethnocentrism."
lets look at polygamy (Islam)
Though Muslim men are allowed to marry more than one wife, their women are forbidden to keep more than one husband. If the woman loses her husband, she is subjected to all sorts of deprivations and humiliation akin to the widow's plight in the traditional African setting. She is entitled to only a quarter of the legacy, and if the deceased has more than one wife, the wives are obliged to share a quarter or one-eighth of the legacy.
Traditional practice in many parts of Africa for girls as young as seven to be married to men old enough to be their fathers, and in some cases, grandfathers. Parents determine who marries their daughters before they are old enough to decide for themselves. Moreover, with the payment of the dowry, a girl is bought and automatically becomes the property of the man, who uses, mistreats, and dumps her when he deems fit. http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/aah/igwe_9_4.htm
Now in Texas if you marry or have sex with a 7 year old girl you go to jail.
When Muslims gain political power and thanks to evil multiculturalism that will change.
Get a good lawyer and a jury of your peers and we will have the OJ SIMPSON MULTICULTURAL CIRCUS again.
The Supreme Court will uphold it when Ginsberg and Souter find laws in tribal Africa which allow sex with kids.
I repeat when multiculturalism is more important than individual rights it is wrong and evil.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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A muslim woman in America has the option to leave her culture and assimilate. To demand that the culture itself assimilate is an inherent contradiction. And as for Africans marrying 7-year-olds, don't confuse marrying and having sex. As any jaded old couple can tell you, the two are not the same. There are many cultures where people are married long before they are expected to have sex. And as for arranged marriages, most studies done on the subject have found little difference in long-term happiness between arranged marriages and love marriages. They both have about an equal success rate.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Silversoul]
#4379151 - 07/07/05 09:00 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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So Paradigm you have no problem with a little girl not having any choice in marraige?
fuck individual rights?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I have no problem with her parents arranging a marriage for her, so long as she may opt out of it, as she can in America. Don't get me wrong here--I'm not saying that we should change our laws to accommodate every single culture. There are certain rights we should uphold regardless of culture, but to say that because of this we should demand that they assimilate is bullshit. They can adapt their culture to comply with our laws, as so many have done already.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 months, 24 days
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Nobody ever said any such thing. Nobody is proposing that multiculturalism be at the expense of individual rights. Such values will not be changed in our society by promoting various cultural events, and nobody is proposing that we allow women to become slaves of men, quite the opposite.
Attacking multiculturalism by finding the worst possible practices in other cultures and claiming that multiculturalism somehow promotes them is not a valid argument, it's a complete straw man.
It's not like western society doesn't have a history of treating women poorly, it used to be normal for men to get married in their 40's, to girls of their choosing, 11, 12 year olds and the like.
Claiming that the supreme court would allow 7 year olds to be married off if they found some small tribe that practiced this is just stupid as well. The supreme court has never done any such thing, claiming that they would is just some bullshit that you completely made up. I might as well claim that people opposed to multiculturalism will eventually gain so much power that they'll eventually start killing off people of other cultures just because they don't like them. Of course it's not going to happen, it's just the most extreme thing that I can imagine happening, and is of no relation to reality, just like your bullshit fantasy story about how we'll eventually be able to marry 7 year olds.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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mr-x
the person no one needs to know


Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 6
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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brain aneurysm bubbley bubbley
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: mr-x]
#14058912 - 03/03/11 09:23 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr-x said: brain aneurysm bubbley bubbley
We seem to have become infested with a rash of trolls. I wonder where these came from.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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The number of "newbies" posting in this forum as of late is a curiosity.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I've seen a few in the other forums too. Not to worry.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Let's see TGRR returns from whatever fetid swamp he had been infesting and we get, along with his particularly pungent stylings, a whole smelly pile of fresh derangement. Ancient threads resurrected and just general nonsense. Like a month old litter box.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I like having him here. Makes a great counterpoint to your musings.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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TheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Icelander]
#14058996 - 03/03/11 09:51 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I rather enjoy having different cultures around. My favorite ethnic event is Cinco de Mayo. The music and food are usually pretty incredible. The costumes and dancing are completely entertaining.
Juneteenth is another celebration I enjoy. For many of the same reasons. Many Amerindian cultures are very interesting as well.
I don't see where accepting other cultures into our society is threatening at all. I grew up in the deep south in the 50's and 60's, and I can tell you all from first hand experience that the civil rights act was critical to this country moving forward.
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Net
Official Mr Shoebat Lackey



Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 32
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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I can't help but find screeds against multiculturalism as a kind of code for unspoken (spineless) racism.
It works on the same overgeneralized, hysterical level. Cultural clashes get magnified into caricatures and all positive qualities that immigrants bring to the table are necessarily ignored. There is no willingness to look at inconvenient facts——the anti-multicultural point of view is an unexamined value judgment rooted in fear and guarded with ignorance.
Where does devaluing a person based on a few physical characteristics leave off and devaluing a person based on a few details of their cultural background start?
-------------------- “In all institutions from which the cold wind of open criticism is excluded, an innocent corruption begins to grow like a mushroom - for example, in senates and learned societies” —Friedrich Nietzsche
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Net]
#14059507 - 03/03/11 11:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's not the physical characteristics at issue.
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TheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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So what is it about?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Multiculturalism [Re: Net]
#14059666 - 03/03/11 12:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheThinker said: So what is it about?
It's about people winding up feeling segregated, as in France.
It's about the lack of tolerance each culture has for the other.
It's about having to print ballots in over a dozen languages, as in NYC and other larger cities.
It's about having to satisfy each and every person from each and every place, so no-one feels left out.
It's about having to provide translators for people who, despite having lived in another country for years, haven't bothered to learn the dominant language.
When a "multicultural" country, such as France, starts saying it's not working it's time to realize that while maintaining and celebrating your individual culture is all well and good, it's not the be all to end all.
Quote:
Net said: I can't help but find screeds against multiculturalism as a kind of code for unspoken (spineless) racism.
What an unbelievably stupid statement.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
TheThinker said: So what is it about?
Culture, which is a choice.
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