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InvisibleIcelander
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How "noble" were they.
    #4229463 - 05/28/05 10:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Some of the first people on this continent lived a different lifestyle and placed value on things differently then we seem to now. I often wonder if they were more "spiritual" or wise or were they pretty much just like us.

Here is a quote from one of them. Does he reflect the whole of the early American culture of these people or was he an anomaly?

" It matters little where we pass the remnant of our days. They will not be many. A few more moons a few more winters, and not one of the decedents of the mighty hosts that once moved over this broad land or lived in happy homes, protected by the Great Spirit will remain to morn over the graves of a people once more powerful and hopeful then yours. But why should I morn at the untimely fate of my people? Tribe follows tribe, nation follows nation, like the waves of the sea. It is the order of nature and regret is useless. Your time of decay  may be distant, but it will surely come, for even the White Man cannot be exempted from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We shall see."
                                  Chief Seattle
                                  Duamish Tribe

Any thoughts? :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: Icelander]
    #4229474 - 05/28/05 10:51 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds like a defeatist attitude to me.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: Icelander]
    #4229499 - 05/28/05 11:05 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

wise...

but there is a possibility that the white/yellow/black man conquers every danger including black holes, asteroids, even explosion of earth, and becomes invincible, well unless he becomes his own end. We just need enought time.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (05/28/05 11:06 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: looner2]
    #4229548 - 05/28/05 11:47 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Sounds like a defeatist attitude to me.




Well this is something I have thought about. Many Indians during the white invasion, refusing to be led as sheep off their lands and onto reservations, choose to fight to the end, and of course die.

I have a lot of respect for that and I think I would have chosen the same.

Still this is only one of the sayings of Chief Seattle. I think he had an enlightened mind and thought quite like a Taoist. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: Icelander]
    #4229561 - 05/28/05 11:54 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Asking Cheif Seattle to speak at the founding of a huge city (named for him) was like asking Albert Einstein to preside over the explosion at Hiroshima...misguided totally. Many native americans of that day had enlightened views of Earth, nature, and the relationships between people who differed in many fundamental ways, but for every one of them there 100 who thoughtlessly contributed to their own demise or sought out revenge for alleged wrongs. The same goes for the people of european origins who lived at that time. In both cultures there were many who were wise and good and there were many who were ignorant and bad. I admire many aspects of native american culture...but these things are the ideals of that culture....not the norms. I also admire many ideals of my own culture...but they are not norms either.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: looner2]
    #4229570 - 05/28/05 11:57 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The Native American culture has endured as a valuable part of American culture...it is now the heritage and responsibility of all North Americans for we are the Native Americans now.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4229577 - 05/28/05 12:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think you are most likely on the mark here. Each person is different. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4229581 - 05/28/05 12:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
wise...

but there is a possibility that the white/yellow/black man conquers every danger including black holes, asteroids, even explosion of earth, and becomes invincible, well unless he becomes his own end. We just need enought time.




I seriously doubt humanity can even conquer our small region of the galaxy, less likely the inevitable dangers of the universe, but even if he could, do you think he could conquer eternity?

Even in the best realistic scenario, humans will decay like everything else. Tell me, where will this invincible humanity go when all galaxies, stars, planets and rocks decay? For even the mighty nucleus of the atom will decay with enough time, so where will we get the matter to continue existing? Where will we get any sustenance at all in a universe of black holes?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Registered: 09/21/03
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Re: How "noble" were they. *DELETED* [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4230937 - 05/28/05 07:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by wandrnshaman

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by wandrnshaman (05/28/05 08:02 PM)


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: wandrnshaman]
    #4231776 - 05/28/05 11:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I would say there is just as much a possibility that we could conquer the physical world for an infinite time as there as a possibility that we can't.

Who knows really? It's easy to say that we "will" succumb to the universe at some point, but then again we don't know much do we. Technology never ceases to amaze. Give it 10,000 years and we'll (somebody) see what happens.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: freddurgan]
    #4232066 - 05/29/05 01:42 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"tribe follows tribe"

like life-death is a single wave, one crest one trough

he's embracing his death, that's profound


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4232700 - 05/29/05 09:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

" And what is it to say farewell to the swift and the hunt, to the end of living and the beginning of survival? We might understand if we knew what is was that white man dreams, what he describes to his children on long winter nights, what visions he burns into their minds, so they will wish for tomorrow. But we are savages. The white man?s dreams are hidden from us."

                                        Chief Seattle :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: Icelander]
    #4232918 - 05/29/05 11:44 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"what it was that white man dreams"

Talk about your culture clashes...

Sad stuff.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: How "noble" were they. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4239157 - 05/31/05 09:32 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Right now I'm reading "Lame Deer: Seeker of Visions" for my anthropology class. It's about a Souix medicine man, kind of an autobiography.

I can't really say if indians are "noble", but they sure are funny! This book was cracking me up! I have only read a few chapters, but I really like it.

Keep in mind that each tribe was different. Some tribes valued war and fierceness, others valued nonagression and pacifism. But one thing is for sure, they knew how to live with nature instead of living off of nature like most industrialized countries.


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