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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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prometeus and the devil
    #4227121 - 05/27/05 05:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Prometeus got punished for giving people fire, and alowing them to develop and he is the hero. Devil gave knowledge of good and bad, consciousness or what ever and he is the bad guy.

Are those two stores one and the same just toled from a different point of view?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4227261 - 05/27/05 06:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The "shining one" told Eve to eat of "the fruit of knowledge." The "shining one" was translated as "serpent," but it is nowhere translated as 'devil.' The devil is a much later interpretation by Christians. The ancient Hebrew writers of the Genesis account did not have the Christian concept of devil, at best they had by the time the Book of Job was written, "Satan," which translates into 'adversary' in Hebrew. GOD's Satan worked for Him.

Some Gnostic sects held the 'serpent' to be a Hero, and even had a symbol of a serpent on a tao (T) cross. The Gnostics held (for the most part) that the True GOD was NOT the Creator God. The Creator God or Demiurge had trapped human souls in matter, and the fruit of knowledge, or gnosis, showed the Way back to the Fullness (Pleroma) of GOD which is our rightful home. Gnosticism came close to becoming the main Christian interpretation, but was eventually eliminated by the early Church Fathers.

Light, fire, gnosis are all similar enough to see the connection that you have pointed out. I had a dream years ago, of a thermonuclear explosion. I heard the words: "Prometheus' Pride Rivals Only That of Lucifer's." I drew the mushroom cloud and these words above it on the second page of a thick journal book that I began on Halloween 1989, so it was a powerful enough message to be placed as a frontispiece like that, so I hear your words loud and clear.

You can read the archetypal message in both myths - the 'theft' of Illumination from God[s] for the salvation of humankind. Neither Apollo, whose fire was taken from his sun-chariot, nor GOD are considered to be evil in the standard myths (some Gnostics DID believe that the Demiurge was evil) but that the Heroes were treated with particular wrath: Prometheus bound to the rock, to have his liver (the 'one who lives' - Greeks held the liver to be the soul) eaten by birds of prey every day, only to have it grow back, ad nauseum; Adam and Eve banished from the Garden of Eden, having to work and to bear offspring in pain, and the serpent to be most accursed of creatures, beneath even cattle (which are raised to be butchered). The Gnostic serpent on the Tree and outstretched Prometheus, both are symbolically related to Christ crucified - the tortured Illuminator of Humankind.

In connection: The Kabbalistic Tree of Life. Notice the heading: "The Shining Ones" and in the other picture, a serpent following what is called 'the lightning path' through the spheres. The symbols of serpent and lightning are related both to Divinity and to evil. At point of origin, where there is no duality, they are One. Hence GOD can exercise wrath and evil as well as mercy and goodness.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4227358 - 05/27/05 07:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

lots of nice info in your post, thanks

Seems both satan and elohim are in a way equaly "divine", they are just two entities that dissagree on some things. And we humans built our current world with the help of satan.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4230169 - 05/28/05 03:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Satan evolved into the idea of the Devil (D'evil one) who was chief of the fallen angels.  An angel can be considered to be different things (there is a whole hierarchy of celestial beings), but an angel is not the 'opposite and equal' of GOD as in Manicheanism or Zoroastrianism (the reality behind Star Wars' Light and Dark sides of the Force). The Tree of Life has a realm below Malkuth called the Qlippoth. It is the realm of the demonic. Personally I don't see the Devil as a constructive force in the creation; more like a sickening, perverting, mutilating factor to match the corrupt nature of evil itself. When evil has a glamourous side, it is like the vampiric hotties in the film 'From Dusk to Dawn' whose evil natures are camoflaged only to be revealled as hideous. Same with the 'protector demons' wafting from the Ark in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark,' of whom the Gestapo guy says "Beautiful," just before they turn to the very Wrath of GOD and melt his face. Kind of like my ex-wife - a tall attractive blonde who was in reality a lying, stealing, faithless bitch-from-Hell who wished me dead  :wink: Hey, myths are brightly illuminated stories that depict Real Life.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4239180 - 05/31/05 09:52 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

markos, i love your posts! I always learn something cool!

I'd really like to learn more about gnosticism, kabbala and other such philosophies. What books would you recommend?

I wish they would go back to the original scriptures and re-translate them...


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OfflineGomp
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: dr0mni]
    #4239415 - 05/31/05 11:41 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"I wish they would go back to the original scriptures and re-translate them... "

still, lost in translation...

to read it the way it is written, learn the language..


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4239619 - 05/31/05 12:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

a


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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


Edited by matt (08/31/07 07:54 PM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4239629 - 05/31/05 01:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Lucifer is a fallen angel, and the Devil, is a concept like God? :P

:confused: :thumbup:


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: Gomp]
    #4239670 - 05/31/05 01:14 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

a


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


Edited by matt (08/31/07 07:53 PM)


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: Gomp]
    #4239712 - 05/31/05 01:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

a


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


Edited by matt (08/31/07 07:54 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: dr0mni]
    #4240355 - 05/31/05 04:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.gnosis.org/

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

http://www.crystalinks.com/kabala.html

http://www.newkabbalah.com/index3.html

Thank's for your vote of confidence  :thumbup:  Here are some links that might get you started. You can listen to on-line lectures by Stephen Hoeller (if you can get used to his accent  :smile: ) at www.gnosis.org.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineGwynevere
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4240388 - 05/31/05 04:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

How close are you to wisdom?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4240472 - 05/31/05 04:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It sort of depends what you're reading - the canonical Bible, the Christian Apocrypha, the Jewish Pseudepigrapha with the three Books of Enoch (which describes the 'Watchers' - the fallen angels who lust after human women and create "giants" through their mating; who teach women the arts of "enchantments" [i.e., 'cosmetics' - BTW, 'Avon,' the big cosmetics company means 'Sin' in Hebrew], and men the art of metallurgy and weapons-making). Also, there are various compendiums of demonology (as well as angelology - especially by Dionysus the Areopagite), mostly composed during the middle ages.

Then again, you've got Babylonian and Mesopotamian demons like 'Pazuzu,' which was highlighted in the Exorcist films, which predate the Christian era. The NT uses Satan, Lucifer, and Beelzebub ("Lord of the Flies") for the most of my recollection. The OT has Belial, Leviathan, Satan, and if you include the Book of Tobit, you find Asmodeus. There is also OT reference to The Angel of Death in Exodus. All these names came from various traditions and it really was the medievalists that created hierarchies of celestial and infernal beings.

Typically, however, Lucifer ('Light Bearer') fell from Heaven with 1/3 of the Heavenly Host, and became GOD's 'Adversary' (Satan in Hebrew), said to dwell (like Greek Hades) in an Underworld (remember that the ancients believed in a flat Earth with a domed Heavens and a dark subterranean realm). Satan does his dirty work in the apocalyptic Book of Revelations, but in a fight with Archangel Michael ('Strength of GOD') he is vanquished and thrown back into "the Pit" of Hell (from the Norse 'Hel') for a symbolic 1000 years. As I've said elsewhere, Satan appears in The Book of Job, which is quite an early writing, and there GOD's 'Adversary' is under GOD's command to give 'adversity' to Job and to test his faith in GOD, so Satan is an angel who performs certain functions for GOD and is not the principle of evil that later Christian theologians personified him as.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineGwynevere
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4240543 - 05/31/05 05:13 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Honestly, I'm curious about this.
I'm not attempting to bait you.
I haven't found much wisdom myself unless I indulge in Socratic truisms, in which case I must be about the wisest person I know.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: prometeus and the devil [Re: Gwynevere]
    #4241731 - 05/31/05 10:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Wisdom is intimate with me. I worship Her. She rewards me with gems.


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