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Invisiblemyndreach
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Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA
    #4221651 - 05/26/05 09:59 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yesterday in a press conference, Bush was asked about the bills in the House again that would give money to Stem Cell Research.

He replied that if he was given any bill such as those that, "...destroy life to save life", he "...will veto it."

What an ass...stem cells are a blastocyst. It is a 5-day old embryo made up of 100-150 cells, none of which are even set to be a certain thing yet. It is a clump of goop the size of a grain of sand.

He obviously values a blastocyst more than a human, because what about the Iraq war? Aren't we destroying life to save lives? Weren't we warned that we had to go to war and kill our children in order to keep us from a mushroom cloud? Isn't that what Condoleeza Rice was alluding to?

We have destroyed over 100,000 lives in Iraq already, most of which are innocent Iraqi men, women, and child civilians.

What an ass...

Here is something that is actually going to save lives and get rid of diseases that are ravaging mankind and he won't do it, but he sets up the war that kills over 100,000 people and just makes the world worse.

Quote:

Charles Manson
"In your world you can take a pen and write on a piece of paper and destroy 200,000 people or more and it's ok because you don't have to see it..."




Edited by myndreach (05/26/05 10:01 AM)


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: myndreach]
    #4221672 - 05/26/05 10:16 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

There is no contradiction. That blastocyst is a life according to George Bush, regardless of what you believe it is.


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Invisiblemyndreach
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: looner2]
    #4221684 - 05/26/05 10:22 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The contradiction is that he says he won't destroy life to save life, but in the Iraq war that he started we are destroying life in order to save life according to he and his administration.

That is the contradiction. The point is that he does consider a blastocyst a human life, as you said. Therefore when he says he won't "destroy life to save life", he is lieing and only saying that to uphold his republican moral grandstanding.

I garauntee that once other countries move ahead of us (as, for instance, S.Korea already has) and begin finding cures and drugs to save lives and cure diseases based on stem cells, the republicans and "moral majority" will do an about face. They will all be saying how it is okay and we should put money into stem cell research once there is an obvious huge profit to be made.

Mark my words...

Also, note that all stem cells for research would come from test tube embryos used for invetro fertilization. There is no way they could come from abortions, as people don't know they are pregnant and have abortions until at least 30 days after conception, far after the cells are undifferentiated.

You know what happens to those test tube embryos? They are stored in frozen animation for a few years and then incinerated. There are currently over 400,000 in storage in the US alone.


Edited by myndreach (05/26/05 10:32 AM)


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OfflineTwister
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: myndreach]
    #4221696 - 05/26/05 10:30 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Good burn Mynd


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Invisiblemyndreach
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: Twister]
    #4221698 - 05/26/05 10:31 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Burn?


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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: myndreach]
    #4221710 - 05/26/05 10:37 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i meant that you sure told him whats what


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: myndreach]
    #4221718 - 05/26/05 10:41 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It kinda make sense in that it would make a good political cartoon.

But I still don't think we should be using embryos through government funds. You are asking people who believe that it is a life to murder, and then study it with their tax dollars. Its not right.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: myndreach]
    #4221735 - 05/26/05 10:58 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I always thought that we didn't need to use embryos to get stem cells because they are already floating around in our bloodstream, all we need to do is filter them? I'm probably wrong on this one though, but I'm sure that what the square box in corner told me. :crazy:


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Invisiblemyndreach
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: looner2]
    #4221738 - 05/26/05 11:00 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Well if you follow your logic to it's conclusion looner2, you must get rid of Invetro Fertilization, because it is the cause of tens of thousands of embryos being destroyed out of non-use. The "moral majority" would never do that though, because then everyone would go into an uproar and see how silly that logic is.

And before people start talking about using umbilical stem cells instead, here's some education for you.

Embryonic Stem Cells are pluralpotential, meaning that these stem cells can become ANY cells...spinal cells, brain cells, eye cells, blood cells, or anything else that exists in the human body.

Umbilical Stem Cells are multipotential, meaning they can become SOME cells, such as red blood cells. I'm not sure what exactly, but it is only a few certain things.

You can see why the scientific community scoffed when Bush was saying that, (paraphrasing) "There are plenty of stem cells available from umbilical sources. There is no need to use embryonic stem cells."

That should also answer your question about why we can't use our own blood cells.

Quote:

egghead1 said:
I always thought that we didn't need to use embryos to get stem cells because they are already floating around in our bloodstream, all we need to do is filter them? I'm probably wrong on this one though, but I'm sure that what the square box in corner told me. :crazy:




Edited by myndreach (05/26/05 11:04 AM)


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: myndreach]
    #4221746 - 05/26/05 11:04 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Are you saying that the stem cells in our bloodstream arent as useful as embryonic stem cells?


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Invisiblemyndreach
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: egghead1]
    #4221750 - 05/26/05 11:09 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes.

Again, the ONLY stem cells that are undifferentiated and plurapotential (capable of becoming any type of cell that exists in a human) are from a blastocyst.

The reason is that the blastocyst isn't anything. The cells are not set to be anything yet, so they can be engineered to be whatever we would need. They aren't human cells yet. They are no different than a cell from a piece of grass. In fact, they aren't even that complex yet. They are almost non-cells.


Edited by myndreach (05/26/05 11:09 AM)


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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: egghead1]
    #4221752 - 05/26/05 11:09 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Actually the stem cells that are in the body normally are adult stem cells which can only make specific types of cells. Embryonic stem cells can make any type of cell in the body because they are harvested before they have been "assigned" to be a specific type of cell. However, scientists have found an intermediate in baby teeth http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0002186B-926B-1EA5-BDC0809EC588EEDF that could hold alot of promise, but by not allowing any funding to go to stem cell research G.W. is holding back American research on it.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: myndreach]
    #4221754 - 05/26/05 11:10 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

They aren't human cells except the fact that they contain human DNA that has combined and is set to become a human being.


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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: myndreach]
    #4221763 - 05/26/05 11:12 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think the stem cells are something that need to be researched and used, but it should be done with private money, not public. If this research goes against someone's philosophical views, they should not have to pay for something they adamantly disagree with.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: myndreach]
    #4221764 - 05/26/05 11:13 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Oh! thank you for the education  :thumbup: :heart:


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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: Twister]
    #4221770 - 05/26/05 11:15 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I don't agree with funding American military endeavors but I am still required to.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: Twister]
    #4221773 - 05/26/05 11:17 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Your sig tells me you are a traitor. You should be jailed.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: Twister]
    #4221779 - 05/26/05 11:19 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Unfortunately for you, popular support for war is a tradition which won't be removed any time soon.


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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: Redstorm]
    #4221795 - 05/26/05 11:26 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

So it's alright to force someone to pay taxes which go to the military even if military spending goes against that persons philosophical views but the same isnt true for stem cell research.

Quote:

Redstorm said:
If this research goes against someone's philosophical views, they should not have to pay for something they adamantly disagree with.




Just because the majority supports defense funding doesn't mean I should have to as well.


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Re: Another amazing contradiction from DUBYA [Re: Twister]
    #4221799 - 05/26/05 11:28 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I should have been more specific. In place of philosophical, put religious or spiritual. If some act makes you forsake your religion, then you should not have to pay for the act.


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