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Offlinetomk
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Registered: 09/22/04
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Dealing with social anxiety
    #4219712 - 05/25/05 08:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Alright.

I need some help here. I can't deal with social anxiety any more. I get this really bad, and it doesn't go away with people I know well. It gets worse. I can handle small talk with strangers OK, but as soon as I start to get to know people, it gets worse. I don't know what to do with this. I guess I am different then a lot of you, who like being loners, because I don't like it. When I want to do something or talk with my friends, I get too nervous to call them. I can't deal with my family at all.

I realize a lot of this anxiety used to be subconscious. That is, I would choose solitary activities, and decieve myself that my preference was solitary. Now, I feel like my mind was hiding the anxiety, which was always there, and that opening up my mind has brought this anxiety to the forefront. Now that I am aware of it, I want to deal with it.

I don't know where to start. I can't afford a doctor visit, and don't know how to go about developing the social skills most people have by the time they are my age. Even the friends I do have, I am not close to. When I am around other people, I don't know how to be myself at all. I just mirror what I think they want. The only people I can be myself around are other people with this problem.

I want to get over this, before I am 50 looking back on a life of loneliness. I'm ready to do something, try something, to do it. That is a start. Anyone have any thoughts?


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"I am eternally free"


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/17/03
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4219748 - 05/25/05 08:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I feel for you. I have it bad too, especially with larger groups of people, but that also has something to do with my other issues, so I don't know what to tell you except to express my good thoughts and hopes you can find some way to resolve it...


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4219781 - 05/25/05 08:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm more comfortable in a large group then I am with people who I have known for a while. I don't know what I can do to get over this.

I thought coming out was supposed to help, it didn't. I don't know what I can do to make it better.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4219816 - 05/25/05 09:05 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know. Maybe you have some intimacy issues? I wish I could help more...


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OfflineAaladorn
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4219911 - 05/25/05 09:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds like the problem isn't you, but the people you encounter. I used to have the same issues, you need to get some confidence in yourself and don't worry about pleasing everyone by conforming to what they want you to be.

Be yourself, don't worry about what others will think when you do what you want to do. You'll encounter people you can relate to, and the more confidence you get in yourself, the better you'll perform in social situations. And remember you don't have to be an ass to people to be confident, just don't worry about what other people will think when you do what you do.

Find some things you're good at and find out what other people are good at, trade ideas and talents. Nothing brings people together like some good food, learn some culinary arts.


I'm starting to ramble, but you can get over this with a little effort.

you might not gain any new friends or anything with my advice, but you'll be more comfortable in social situations.


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OfflineStrandedVoyager
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: Aaladorn]
    #4220172 - 05/25/05 11:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I used to have horrid social anxiety to the point where even if I was around people I knew and loved often times I'd run away and hide by myself for awhile. I noticed that I totally lost social anxiety when I did ecstasy. I went to my doctor and he put me on this stuff called Well Butrin which is kind of like weak ecstasy. I'm not so over the top but now I can handle being in crowds and at parties and such. I'd strongly recommend you visit your doctor and ask for his thoughts and see if he can't prescribe something for you. I looked down on such things before hand but I got to a point where I couldn't take it anymore. Well-Butrin really really helps me.


--------------------
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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #4220529 - 05/26/05 12:14 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

a doctor's visit to a psychiatrist can cheaper than you think. after that you basically pay for meds and maybe monthly checkups.

are you afraid of letting yourself be loved?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4220754 - 05/26/05 12:58 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have heard those stories about MDMA working for social anxiety, but my social anxiety prevents me from meeting people who have MDMA for me to get.  :shrug:

I got put on an antidepressant for nerve pain before and it really made me go bad crazy.  I don't think I want to try that again.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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InvisibleAdden
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Posts: 34,130
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4221000 - 05/26/05 02:35 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I remember when I was confused about social anxiety.

I really didn't know why it was happening to me, I didn't know how to stop it, and it really didn't seem like something that could be fixed.

Now, I know this is going to be a lot easier for me to say than for you to do, but it is better than the alternative (benzo addictions are no fun).

You really just gotta grab this by the balls and squeeze.

Why are you anxious about your friends calling? If you don't wanna chill or do the same old thing again, or you're feeling down, tell them. They're your friends. They should understand. If they don't, they aren't your friends.

Family situations are all messed up with everyone across the board (figure of speech, not this msg board). No matter how bad you think your's is, there are thousands more worse than it. People are people, and they are who they are, so just accept them as is. If underlying issues are there, present them. Fix them. Make life easier to live.

Most psychologists and websearching will tell you anxiety stems from fear of death or fear of losing control. If there are underlying issues in a situation, you are losing control of the situation when you give in to them. Also, there is the fear of anxiety itself: "I will never get better, oh no!", "It's getting worse, I know it!!", etc.

Btw, what were you put on?

I'd recommend some of the new generation SSRI's (Lexapro, Celexa), or even something like Wellbutrin XL, which works on norepinephrine and dopamine rather than seratonin. The tricyclic anti-depressants target all three areas (Effexor), but that might be overload. I'd recommend Wellbutrin XL over an SSRI, though. Also helps if you're a smoker. Not as much as a stimulating effect as SSRI's.

I know you're not interested since your last bad experience, but a light dose of Wellbutrin might just take the edge off the anxiety until you can deal with your issues.

Whatever path you chose, just don't choose the one to run and stash this away and hide with it. Confront it now, get it the hell over because I know it really sucks, and work things out. Talk to someone you look up to. I was scared as hell to ask my gentle giant next door neighbor about it when there was no one to turn to; it turns out he suffered a million times worse when he was my age.

If you wanna chat, send me a PM. It's sometimes hard to talk about these things just through posting.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4222101 - 05/26/05 12:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have read many posts by you, and been impressed by the wisdom you have offered to others who were struggling.

Perhaps your struggle begins with putting other people ahead of yourself?  I am guessing, of course.  I don't have a window into your head or your life.

Your anxiety suggests to me that you might be investing energy in maintaining an "image" and in providing services to others.

What if you experimented with extreme self-care: always put your needs first, work on loving yourself best/most, consider what is interesting/fun to you and pursue it.

I, too, struggled with shyness and social anxiety.  I got involved with theater to force myself out into public after being home schooled for ten years.  The freedom of pretending to be someone else in a structured way (i.e. a character in a play) helped me to learn how to manage my anxiety.  At first I was just pretending not to be anxious, then (when nothing terrible happened :grin:) I began to relax for real.

I believe that it is possible to overcome social anxiety without medication.  I wish you healing and growth.


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OfflineTwister
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #4223049 - 05/26/05 04:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I know how you feel almost exactly. I'm basically at a point where nobody knows the real me. I can only really submit myself to small talk with strangers and with friends I can talk about most things, but I can't open myself up and talk about me. I pretty much just put up a facade and shy away from expressing my feelings. I've always been "the shy/quiet guy" and I regret most of the times I've just settled with that and let the anxiety rule me. I barely talk to my family any more and I regret how far from them I've grown.

Lately though I've really been trying to address these issues. With the family I try to just be as open and possible and to do things with them, because they are really the only people that will stand by me through thick and thin.

I had a terrible time meeting people after I moved to college and basically lived a year and a half as a hermit, only hanging out with people on the weekends when I would go back to my hometown. Now I've made a few friends, and even though I sometimes fall into the whole psyching myself out before I even call anyone thing, I try to hang out with them as much as possible.

I've found it hardest to just plain open myself up to people. Its mainly due to the fact that I consider myself pretty strange, and I think opening up would hurt my chances of making/keeping friends. Alot of the time when I'm drunk I find myself saying things that I usually wouldn't say that just don't sound right or probably only make make proper sense to me, and of course this just reinforces the anxiety. So I'm not really sure what the best remedy for this would be but maybe just forcing yourself to open up a little bit at a time, probably to one friend that you held in high confidence. I've also found it easier(in some ways) to open up to a significant other so that could be an option.
Good luck and feel free to PM me if you'd like.

P.S. I know what you mean about only being able to open up to people with anxiety. It's like I've got an anxiety-dar now and if I see somone acting anxious I can empathise with them, thus I feel infinitely more comfortable around them.


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OfflineTwister
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4223072 - 05/26/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

One more thing. I've found that working out/running/whatever other physical activity floats your boat really helps build confidence and promotes physical and mental well-being.


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
Loc: PNW
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #4223685 - 05/26/05 07:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
I have read many posts by you, and been impressed by the wisdom you have offered to others who were struggling.

Perhaps your struggle begins with putting other people ahead of yourself?  I am guessing, of course.  I don't have a window into your head or your life.




But I don't really like other people.  I don't think I put them ahead of myself.  I do get extra uncomfortable when people try and offer me stuff or something (except pot, then I'm like OK) and I don't quite know why.  Like even if someone offers me something like to get a beer while they are at the store I don't know how to respond.  But, I don't feel like I want to respond one way or the other.  I just don't feel anything.  I don't know.  I do have trouble asserting myself.  But most of the time I feel I don't know what I want, so it's not like I want things to go one way or another.  I used to have things set up in my head a certain way, like a plan to follow, and then I would get upset or even confused when things didn't go the way I planned.  I let go of preparing for social events ahead like that, and it helped, because I don't get so invested on how things actually turn out.  But now I feel like I don't know what to do.  It used to be I'd have everything set in my head so I knew exactly what I wanted, but that was bad.  Now, it's like I don't think about it so much, and have no idea what to do.  So I sort of freeze up and go "um, I don't know" a lot and stuff.  I don't know. 

You know those experiments where they have it so anything the test animal does is bad, so the animal freezes.  I feel sort of like that sometimes.  I'm not sure why.

Quote:

Your anxiety suggests to me that you might be investing energy in maintaining an "image" and in providing services to others.




I'd read it more like this:  by providing some service to others, I create an identity, which I cling to, and because I don't know who I am, I feel like without this I don't exist.  I don't help other people because I care about them, I do it because in doing so, I get some sort of validation.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.  I realize it is not ideal, but it is better then getting that same validation through alcoholism or cutting. 

Quote:

What if you experimented with extreme self-care: always put your needs first, work on loving yourself best/most, consider what is interesting/fun to you and pursue it.




I guess I would say that I don't feel my needs.  They don't seem real to me.  The stuff I want to do with my life seems empty.  I feel no motivation to pursue it, and when I do pursue it, I think "I'm bored, I'd rather be doing something else."

Quote:

I, too, struggled with shyness and social anxiety.  I got involved with theater to force myself out into public after being home schooled for ten years.  The freedom of pretending to be someone else in a structured way (i.e. a character in a play) helped me to learn how to manage my anxiety.




I've thought about doing this.  Finding another person, and going around town acting completely bizzare or like someone completely different.  I know a lot of psychology, and think it would be great fun to go around acting like I was OCD, or something.  :laugh:

Quote:

I believe that it is possible to overcome social anxiety without medication.  I wish you healing and growth.




I believe it is too.  But I don't know if I can get over this myself.  I've been consciously struggling with it for a while, and I feel really torn between "the world isn't as bad as I think it is, I should interact with it more" and "I hate everyone I want to go to bed and pull my covers under my head and not deal with it."  I feel like I've reached a spot where I've done everything I can do for myself and am just banging my head against a wall.

Thanks for all the responses.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4223710 - 05/26/05 07:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:You know those experiments where they have it so anything the test animal does is bad, so the animal freezes. I feel sort of like that sometimes. I'm not sure why.





I believe you are referring to the learned helplessness experiments. Martin Seligman's book on that topic might be an interesting read for you.

The feeling you have that you do not have an identity when you are not "providing a service" goes along with denying yourself acceptance and approval. Maybe you are waiting for someone to unconditionally accept you so that you will have permission to accept yourself?


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4224230 - 05/26/05 10:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
You know those experiments where they have it so anything the test animal does is bad, so the animal freezes. I feel sort of like that sometimes. I'm not sure why.




that's a very interesting statement. try asking yourself, when did you first start to feel this way?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4224654 - 05/27/05 12:41 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, I've also had social anxiety, and it reached a pinnacle during adolescence. MDMA greatly helped me overcome it, but there are many things you can do, you just have to find the one that's right for you.

Since I don't really know you, I can't say much in terms of psychology, but I do get the impression you feel alienated from others and that you don't seem to know yourself well.

How you go about dealing with those things is entirely up to you. Native Americans would go out for weeks on end with absolutely nothing but their groin covering, and were expected to provide for themselves and find out who they really are. Perhaps you could do something similar...go backpacking for a week or two by yourself and try to get to know yourself.

Or you could take up meditating. Or see a social worker/psychologist/psychiatrist. Or you could trip on one drug or another and use it as a tool for introspection.

Point is...be proactive. If you don't want to end up a lonely 50 year old looking back on your life with depression, then do something now to prevent that.

You absolutely have that power. You are your own god.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: dblaney]
    #4224826 - 05/27/05 01:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Ohh, I realize I need to deal with this problem now.  That was my intent at posting.

I don't feel like I'm just alienated from others.  I feel so alienated from others that it's undescribable.  I've only met 2 or 3 people I don't feel completely alienated from, and being how they are like me, I don't talk to them much.  :frown: 

About knowing yourself.  I don't think it's possible to know yourself.  I dont' know myself well, I agree, but I don't think you can know yourself.  The minute you think you do, you are holding onto an illusion that isn't you.  In not knowing myself, I am closer to knowing myself then those people who think they do.  I've been thinking that I should quit my job, take a train to vancouver BC, and live as a homeless person there for a while, playing guitar or something for pennies for food, so that I could gain some perspective on things.  I still think it's a good idea, but am too afraid of not having certain comforts I take for granted to do it.  I also think running off and joining a buddhist monastary is probably the best thing I can do with my life right now.  :shrug:

Think of this analogy.  I feel like I'm climbing a mountain, and am about 2/3 of the way up one side.  It feels like civilation is at the base of this mountain, and that I need to finish climbing it, getting further away from people, before I can descend and rejoin them, with everything I've seen from that view to both guide me and allow me to guide everyone else.

But then I think the people who feel that way are certifiable, and don't know what to do.

I already meditate.  It's helped me a lot.  I think I am going to use psilocybin mushrooms again this weekend, if I get it off.  I think a mid dose + pot will help me gain more perspective.

I also think I am going to look into finding some psychological help.  I need help getting over this.

Actually, I've been thinking about using dextromethorphan for this.  I remember my first DXM trip was the first time I felt a desire to actually connect with other people.  Maybe by using this drug again, I can reconnect with that.

I dunno, I'm too drunk to commit to any particular plan right now.

Thanks for all the responses everyone.  :sun: :tripping:


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4224882 - 05/27/05 01:33 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
that's a very interesting statement. try asking yourself, when did you first start to feel this way?




When I was a kid, we went to a vacation with some family members. While there I had a distantly related babysitter who made me come into the bathroom with her and stick my fingers in her. This in itself wasn't traumatic, but I remember being aware that all hell would break loose if my dad found out. I also remember last time all hell broke loose with my dad he started throwing shit at my mom hard enough to break the wall. So, when he came back, I was really really anxious that he didn't find out. Being from a roman catholic background at the time, of course I knew that the sort of thing that girl made me do was forbidden in a sort of hush hush way. I know thats when it started.

I don't harbor any ill feelings towards the girl who did it. I know she was abused herself, first of all, and second of all, came from a family that created my dad and his anger problem. She was 13 or 14 at the time, and was merely repeating the behavior her enviroment showed her.

I don't harbor any ill feelings towards my dad, either. He is still a control freak, but is improving a little bit. In his own egotistical way, he is sorry for the way he raised me. (He tells me he knows it was wrong by the way he says he doesn't want to discuss the mistakes he made raising me by dwelling on the past.)

But, knowing where it comes from doesn't help it go away. I know where it comes from. But it's still there, and still ruining my life 15 years later. I never learned any other way to interact with people. Now that I'm aware of all this, I still don't know any other way to interact with people.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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OfflineStrandedVoyager
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: tomk]
    #4225076 - 05/27/05 02:48 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I was abused as a kid too man... it's weird how people who were seem to develop intense social anxiety. The main thing is you need to examine yourself, become okay with yourself, and realize that you're a decent person and you'll be okay :thumbup: :smile:


--------------------
Hi  :scrambled:

My god... it's full of stars...


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Dealing with social anxiety [Re: StrandedVoyager]
    #4225279 - 05/27/05 04:03 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with a lot of the information here, but I couldn't help notice you keep mentioning drugs as an answer, and I seriously doubt those will help at all. Especially the DXM. You're just going to close yourself off from the world, get really high and end up surrounding yourself with your own thoughts and imaginings, when really you haven't done shit. You haven't gone out and talked to anybody, you haven't attempted to attack the REAL problem, which is SOCIAL anxiety. Sitting alone on mushrooms is just an escape like any other (in this case, I'm not bashing mushrooms) but on this forum it always seems to go unnoticed when someone wants to deal with SOCIAL anxiety by sitting alone on mushrooms smoking pot and "gaining perspective" when really they are gaining nothing but their already scewed perspectives again and again.

Attack the problem. Don't pretend.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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