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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Autoclave, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

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Offlineclosetgrower
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Registered: 03/12/05
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autoclave users
    #4217856 - 05/25/05 11:23 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

my wife says i can use her autoclave at work but she doesn't think you can put glass in is. says it will break. does anyone know if i can put quart jars in it for  20 min. three times in a row.(it only runs for 20 min. at a time. oh yea what about the metal lid for the jar? thanks erbody! :thumbup:


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peon

Registered: 04/02/05
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Re: autoclave users [Re: closetgrower]
    #4217874 - 05/25/05 11:30 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yes man just leave your jars a little loose and then tighten them as you are removing them. no prob with the metal lids. 20 mins @ 15psi @ 120c will be plenty, no need to run them more than that. that is all i ever run them at and don't have contams.


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Offlineclosetgrower
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Re: autoclave users [Re: backupwards]
    #4217886 - 05/25/05 11:34 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

it takes 60 min. for grains at 15 psi. why would i only do 20 min?


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peon

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Re: autoclave users [Re: closetgrower]
    #4217903 - 05/25/05 11:41 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

@ 120c? do you presoak your grains or simmer or both? if you do then the endospores are going to be activated and will surely die in a 20 min cycle.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: autoclave users [Re: backupwards]
    #4217922 - 05/25/05 11:47 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

backupwards said:
@ 120c? do you presoak your grains or simmer or both? if you do then the endospores are going to be activated and will surely die in a 20 min cycle.




I dont know what 120c means...but 20 minutes @ 15 PSI is no where near enough to get consistant results. I dont know if 3 20 minuite runs will work that well, if it cools down to 1ATM every time, and your gonna lose so much time to heating up and cooling down. Never saw a PC that only runs for 20 minutes though. Glass will be fine in any PC or autoclave.



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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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peon

Registered: 04/02/05
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Re: autoclave users [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4217940 - 05/25/05 11:52 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

120 degrees centigrade. never have seen one that only runs 20 mins myself. all the labs i have ever worked at they could go up to an hour or more. that is all i have ever done on brf jars, my last run i did a bunch of wbs and some wgbr jars and have no contams at this point in time. although my wbs are too wet they are still not contaming.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: autoclave users [Re: backupwards]
    #4217962 - 05/25/05 11:59 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well I've never done BRF jars, but flour doesnt have the seed shell so it can be sterilized easier...people boil them for 30 minutes with success so 20 min@15 PSI would be fine. I have done over a thousand grain jars though from 30min-120min...90 is best, but 60 often works. Less can...but your lucky if it does. It also matters on the size jar, since the heat has to penetrate the center of the substrate..so if you just did 1/2 pints, that would also help...quarts need more time and giant jars like that pickle jar need even more. Thats to guarentee success...sure you can maybe get away with less...but do you want to sit and put around for weeks watching jars colonize only to have half fail when they're almost done or do you want to do things right and be assured of results?



--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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peon

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 3,022
Loc: somewhere else
Re: autoclave users [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4218005 - 05/25/05 12:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

not going to argue that point with you scat as you have much more experince with grains than i. i am only doing pinters with grain, 1/2 pinters with brf. if i run into problems at 20 mins then i will increase it. good luck on those pickle jars.
peace


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peon

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 3,022
Loc: somewhere else
Re: autoclave users [Re: backupwards]
    #4218010 - 05/25/05 12:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

so did we answer closetgrowers question? good luck man
peace


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Offlineblackout
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Re: autoclave users [Re: backupwards]
    #4218207 - 05/25/05 01:12 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The grain in the middle is insulated by the outer grains so it takes longer to heat. I have seen recommendations for 3 hours @ 15psi for a full autoclave bag of rye


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InvisibleDexter_Morgan
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Re: autoclave users [Re: blackout]
    #4218387 - 05/25/05 02:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Are you all joking? OK, Maybe not, but Scat, I only PC my jars for 30min (WBS, soak 24, and NOT simmered). While i have a small sample size (only about 15 jars) non have contaminated. I had some jars that i just left un-inoculated, and nothing grew in them for at least 2 months(I just knocked them up on Monday with some free Australian spores from Ralphser44)
I don't mean to doubt you Scat, I really appreciate all the good work you do around here, I just think that 90 minutes at 15psi is overkill.
I don't think that the grains on the inside are 'insulated' everything inside the jar is soaked with water, if the water in the bottom of the PC is boiling at 250F(remember it's under pressure), and your jars are NOT sealed, all the water in the PC is at 250F
I would love to here others idea on PC time. (Diver, for example). It should also be noted that I used Tyvek filters in between the lid and the ring on my jars, and that I change my WBS soak water at least 4 times; the water is close to clear after the final drain.


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Invisible@cro
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Re: autoclave users [Re: closetgrower]
    #4218417 - 05/25/05 02:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If you're talking about a lab autoclave, 20mins is usually for the dry cycle. There should be an option for a wet cycle that is longer and will work.

As for PCing for 30 mins, well if you're doing quart jars, then I'd say you've gotten really lucky so far. I would increase your time just to be on the safe side.
You call it over kill but what is an extra hour of PC time compared to hours of cleaning out contamed jars and starting from scratch.

Peace


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: autoclave users [Re: Dexter_Morgan]
    #4218420 - 05/25/05 02:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

90 may be overkill, but when you work with as many jars as I do, I dont like a 90% success rate, I like 99%. 60 minutes has given me a few more bacteria jars then I like, so whats an extra single hour to make sure that 20 jars come out ALL perfect instead of a single jar contaminating? I say 20 jars BTW and 1 hour, because I do 2 runs at a time, 10 jars per run, 30 minutes longer then the 60 minutes I feel is needed.

I also often hydrate my grains with poo water, which REQUIRES the 90 minutes IME, since 60 minutes results in half with bacterial bloom. I also use a mix of WBS, rye and rye grass seed and I like to sterilize RGS for the 90 minutes, instead of 60 for the same reason (to much bacteria). I have done many many batches at 60 minutes of WBS/rye hydrated with regular water and most batches come out ok...but maybe 1 in 10 batches would have most of the jars contam...sure thats 90 jars clean, but then you get a whole 10 quarts that goes bad...and when you have a culture that you REALLY dont want to lose, and you lose it...it can really suck.

I'm sure WBS and rye could be cooked less, IF you are lucky..as I said. Every brand of birdseed though will differ, especially in different parts of the country or in other countries. Even bags will differ (ALOT), so if you've only worked from one bag, you may have one with few spores, and your state may be the same way. However others may not be so lucky, maybe they'll have many mold spores floating around the state and their house, maybe they'll get dirty bags of WBS. The point is you dont know, and its better safe then sorry. Recomendations are just that, what you SHOULD do to be safe. It doesnt mean its NEEDED. But I'd highly suggest it.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: autoclave users [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4220457 - 05/25/05 11:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I pressure cook my 6 to 8 pound spawn bags (usually two per load) for 3 hours! I keep the cooker just hot enough to hiss but not quite hot enough to rock the weight. It does start to rock the weight in the last hour, though, since the bags finally get hot enough at the end to stop absorbing heat.


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Autoclave, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

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