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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Cheap-labor conservatism
    #4198499 - 05/20/05 08:42 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/beattherightinthree.htm

Quote:

Don't believe me. Well, let's apply this principle, and see how many right-wing positions become instantly understandable.

* Cheap-labor conservatives don't like social spending or our "safety net". Why. Because when you're unemployed and desperate, corporations can pay you whatever they feel like ? which is inevitably next to nothing. You see, they want you "over a barrel" and in a position to "work cheap or starve".

* Cheap-labor conservatives don't like the minimum wage, or other improvements in wages and working conditions. Why. These reforms undo all of their efforts to keep you "over a barrel".

* Cheap-labor conservatives like "free trade", NAFTA, GATT, etc. Why. Because there is a huge supply of desperately poor people in the third world, who are "over a barrel", and will work cheap.

* Cheap-labor conservatives oppose a woman's right to choose. Why. Unwanted children are an economic burden that put poor women "over a barrel", forcing them to work cheap.

* Cheap-labor conservatives don't like unions. Why. Because when labor "sticks together", wages go up. That's why workers unionize. Seems workers don't like being "over a barrel".

* Cheap-labor conservatives constantly bray about "morality", "virtue", "respect for authority", "hard work" and other "values". Why. So they can blame your being "over a barrel" on your own "immorality", lack of "values" and "poor choices".

* Cheap-labor conservatives encourage racism, misogyny, homophobia and other forms of bigotry. Why? Bigotry among wage earners distracts them, and keeps them from recognizing their common interests as wage earners.




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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: cb9fl]
    #4198606 - 05/20/05 10:11 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

You forgot to mention that they support special privileges for corporations as legal fictions.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 23 days, 12 hours
Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: Silversoul]
    #4199108 - 05/20/05 12:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

* Cheap-labor conservatives don't like social spending or our "safety net". Why. Because when you're unemployed and desperate, corporations can pay you whatever they feel like ? which is inevitably next to nothing. You see, they want you "over a barrel" and in a position to "work cheap or starve".




I have no problem with unemployment benefits, but why should I have to pay hard earned money so that some lazy slob can sit at home and watch Oprah while getting a welfare check.


Quote:

* Cheap-labor conservatives don't like the minimum wage, or other improvements in wages and working conditions. Why. These reforms undo all of their efforts to keep you "over a barrel".




If you don't like the wages I offer, please, by all means, work someplace else.

Quote:

* Cheap-labor conservatives like "free trade", NAFTA, GATT, etc. Why. Because there is a huge supply of desperately poor people in the third world, who are "over a barrel", and will work cheap.




So I should pay more money to have a lazy person do substandard work just because they happen to live in the same geographic area as I do?

Quote:

* Cheap-labor conservatives oppose a woman's right to choose. Why. Unwanted children are an economic burden that put poor women "over a barrel", forcing them to work cheap.




I think this is a real stretch...

Quote:

* Cheap-labor conservatives don't like unions. Why. Because when labor "sticks together", wages go up. That's why workers unionize. Seems workers don't like being "over a barrel".




Again, if you don't like it ... work someplace else. Unions are not needed with current labor laws.

Quote:

* Cheap-labor conservatives constantly bray about "morality", "virtue", "respect for authority", "hard work" and other "values". Why. So they can blame your being "over a barrel" on your own "immorality", lack of "values" and "poor choices".




Everybody constantly brays about something and everybody likes to blame somebody else for their problems. This is a stretch...

Quote:

* Cheap-labor conservatives encourage racism, misogyny, homophobia and other forms of bigotry. Why? Bigotry among wage earners distracts them, and keeps them from recognizing their common interests as wage earners.




Ah yes, that is why we have equal oportunity employment, and afirmative action, etc... again, this is a streth.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: cb9fl]
    #4199479 - 05/20/05 02:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Cheap labour conservatives have spent untold zillions convincing the population that if you work for a multi-billion dollar corporation and still can't pay the bills, it's your own fault. You should consider yourself lucky to even have a crappy job.

Because cheap labour conservatives control the money supply through interest rates, they are able to ensure a vast reserve army of unemployed, desperate workers, who'd take your job for half the wage...

Yet enough people believe that the system is just fine. Some think that if we just imprisoned all pot-heads, or some other scapegoat, the system would work.

Whatever you do, don't support politics that wants to crack down of financial capitalism. Do you think North Korea is a good system? Maybe you'd lke to live in the USSR. Excuse me while I sell some junk bonds and make more in an hour than a worker will in his lifetime.

Thats the system. It's a demoracy. If most peolple didn't want it, it would be gone.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 6 months, 23 hours
Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: carbonhoots]
    #4200208 - 05/20/05 05:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

What the fuck was that?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: carbonhoots]
    #4200491 - 05/20/05 06:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

>> Thats the system. It's a demoracy. If most peolple didn't want it, it would be gone.

thats exactly what i meant about them being "little eichmanns" (i dont know about "little") in some earlier posts...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4201061 - 05/20/05 08:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Well, it wasn't elitist propaganda


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: carbonhoots]
    #4201172 - 05/20/05 09:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That's my problem with some conservatives on this board and conservatives in general. They vehemently want to destroy the welfare state yet lack the same fervor in eliminating corporatism. Until corporatism is eliminated I see welfare as a necessary evil. It counters the abysmal acts of large domestic and international corporations. If all government subsidies and benefits for corporations were eliminated I would be on the front lines fighting for the disassembly of welfare.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: cb9fl]
    #4201451 - 05/20/05 10:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Screw that. One evil doesn't justify another. The middle class gets squeezed by giveaways both to the rich and poor. Eliminating them both would be great, but eliminating either one first would still be a huge benefit.

Once you start taking a hacksaw to government spending it will make the job easier. If you eliminated half the corporate tax breaks those corporations would no longer support corporate tax breaks to potential competators. And what conservatives here are supporters of corporatism?

The Government shouldn't be kingmaker. They shouldn't have the power to pick financial winners and losers in the market. That is exactly what they do. One company in Ohio recently got $200 million in tax breaks, tax breaks which amounted to over $100,000.00 per job at their vaunted corporate headquarters which they threatened to move.

That company doesn't exist in a vacuum. They live in a competative market with competators. Their competition can't like the fact that the government just bolstered them with 200 million. The actions taken with taxpayer money could likely put some very productive Americans out of work.

It doesn't matter who is most efficient when the government is throwing out that kind of money. Not only does our system encourage statism, you are punished and perhaps banished from the market if cannot actively manipulate the government coffers to your advantage.

It isn't all the fault of corporations. If my competator gets 200 million I need to lobby for my stake or I will be out of business. Big Government loves the power as well. I recently read an article that said not one skyscraper is going up in New York City without government funds. Union contracts, prevailing wage and minimum wage laws, permit and inspection fees and endless buracracy make an impact. No company could build there and make a profit without a subsidy from big brother. The government has completely distorted that market from all sides.

We pay farmers not to pay food, and we have price supports for agricultural products. Then we pay poor people food stamps because the government has driven up the price of food. In the exact same way the government has driven up the price of housing through Section 8 rental comps. Now the person who is on welfare might benefit from the foodstamps and the government housing, but what about the person with a job? The working poor get screwed, by not receiving the handouts but still paying inflated pricing for housing and food.

Our government needs to get the fuck out of our business.


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Tastes just like chicken


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4201489 - 05/20/05 11:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

We pay farmers not to pay food, and we have price supports for agricultural products. Then we pay poor people food stamps because the government has driven up the price of food. In the exact same way the government has driven up the price of housing through Section 8 rental comps. Now the person who is on welfare might benefit from the foodstamps and the government housing, but what about the person with a job? The working poor get screwed, by not receiving the handouts but still paying inflated pricing for housing and food.

Exactly. The poor worker gets screwed to a much greater degree than the middle class worker thus the need for checks and balances. Welfare is a horrible system which barely works, but it does barely work. It keeps the very poor alive. If corporatism didn't exist and poor people were dying I would have no problem with that. The world might be a shitty place but if people truly have the freedom to chose their own destiny then responsibility lies solely with them. However corporatism does exist and it does screw the little guy thus there is a need for some sort of balance. Even if that balance comes from another big corporation exploiting the needs of the little guy they are providing, albeit barely, for the little guy.

Our government needs to get the fuck out of our business.

Until they do (never) we need corporatism balanced by welfare.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: cb9fl]
    #4201491 - 05/20/05 11:05 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I agree. A number of other changes need to occur first before we get rid of the social safety net.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Cheap-labor conservatism [Re: cb9fl]
    #4201656 - 05/21/05 12:46 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cb9fl said:
The poor worker gets screwed to a much greater degree than the middle class worker thus the need for checks and balances.






Maybe we need to define "poor worker". What is a poor worker? What if you have a job and don't receive government benefits? And won't the poor always by definition be in a lower economic class? Doesn't that go without saying? Just because that is so and their financial options are limited, that doesn't mean they are getting "screwed".

Quote:

Welfare is a horrible system which barely works, but it does barely work. It keeps the very poor alive.




warped.

You have set some high standards for welfare, it keeps the very poor alive. By your definition, welfare is an amazing success. We have the fattest poor people of any country on the planet. If you want to judge how a nation treats their poor, look at how fat their poor people are. You act like people are hanging on the precipice of starvation, and nothing could be further from the truth. Not only does welfare keep the poor alive, it turns out many breeders. It actually pays more for that behavior.

And how does "it barely work"? I am interested to know.

Quote:

If corporatism didn't exist and poor people were dying I would have no problem with that. The world might be a shitty place but if people truly have the freedom to choose their own destiny then responsibility lies solely with them.




I don't know why I even get into these arguments. I am drunk anyway, so who cares.

You wouldn't care if poor people were actually dying on the streets, because you were satisfied that no companies got tax breaks in the process. You boggle my mind my friend.

Quote:

However corporatism does exist and it does screw the little guy thus there is a need for some sort of balance. Even if that balance comes from another big corporation exploiting the needs of the little guy they are providing, albeit barely, for the little guy.




What does that mean? Are you as drunk as I am? "Even if that balance comes from another big corporation exploiting the needs of the little guy they are providing"? What kind of cyclical mindfuck did I sign on to? What?

I don't know what the threshold is on the low income is to not receive benefits. I know that plenty of people who don't make a lot of money never see a dime in government benefits. While people that never tried to make dime get taxpayer money. I also don't know the high threshold of money and power one would need to coerce the government into a tax giveaway. Leeches exist on both ends of the spectrum, and you call that balance. I call that screwing everyone in between.


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Tastes just like chicken


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