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OfflineBlue Helix
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Smell right after spawning?
    #4193689 - 05/19/05 02:13 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I have noticed that usually when I spawn straw or horse manure, there is a terrible smell like rotting trash that develops in about 6 hours after spawning (around the temperture spike) and stays around until about 70%-80% coverage. Everyone here that brings up a trash smell is confident that it means absolute failure, but the funny part is that the times I've failed seem to have little to do with the smell and A LOT to do with the water content of the substrate (mostly too much water).

So the smell doesn't mean failure, but it always scares the shit out of me because if a grain jar smelled like that, it'd be toast. Why is it that no one talks about that smell? Just for the record, I do have a tendancy to accidently get pasteurization temps too high due to numerous stupid things that I do (and including a oven that is possessed), and when pasteurization gets too hot, it seems to make the smell worse.

Has anyone else noticed a rotting trash smell, especially right after spawning? If no one else smells it, what am I doing wrong? Too hot in the pasteurization?

PS - By the way, this rotting trash smell is a little bit different from the wet spot bacteria smell--both smell bad of course. The sour wet spot bacteria smell tends to indicate real trouble more often (but not always if during the spawn run), and I am terrified of that smell.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4193787 - 05/19/05 02:40 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If you get a shit smell, that is nasty bacteria blossoming. :thumbdown:

If you get a odd sort of sweet smell, that is usualy fermentation. :thumbdown:


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4193816 - 05/19/05 02:49 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

So, let me get this right: there are ways to NOT get that smell? I cannot remember a run that did not have it. This picture is of a tray that had it real bad:



If there is a way to prevent it, I'd like to know. I have tried lowering the water content until the substrate is almost too dry. The only thing I have not tried is pasteurizing at a low temperature, say 150F or something like that. Mostly I hit 165F or higher (by accident).


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4193822 - 05/19/05 02:50 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, and one other thing: the smell is more sweet than anything develops REALLY fast, like 8 hours after spawning or so. Does fermentation start in 8 hours?


Edited by Blue Helix (05/19/05 02:51 AM)


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4193840 - 05/19/05 02:56 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Sometimes you get it....&..... sometimes not.

It just depends on the live microbe count in the substrate.

A higher spawn ratio seems to keep it at bay.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4193864 - 05/19/05 03:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I sometimes think I am cursed. I turned on the oven to pasteurize the stuff at 170F. I guess when I put the large bucket in, I somehow moved the temperature probe so it stopped reading the right temperature. I went to bed, expecting to wake to 160F or so manure, but woke up to 200F manure! After cursing a few, I let it cool and mixed in some more aged manure and re-pasteurized, hoping the new manure would seed the bacteria in the near-sterilized manure. I don't know if it worked--that was only 8 hours ago--but the whole thing smells funky now like the other times I've hit 180F or so during pasteurization. This time, though, I am scared because I supplemented with 1% sterilized flax. Fortunately, my spawn rate is about 35% this time with more on the top and bottom and the water content is perfect, so I am hoping it'll be okay. Damn, if I owned that stove, I would have thrown it out right then and there. What a piece of shit. In the last 5 years, it's nearly killed us twice with flying sparks on the burners and now this... Like I said it is possessed.


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InvisibleMrMaddHatter
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4193878 - 05/19/05 03:10 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Like I said it is possessed.



Time for an exorcism :tongue:

Really though, I've never experienced this smell. I don't usually check spawned poo until three or four days, so mine could smell also. Will have to check tomorrow.

EDIT...Nevermind :tongue:


Edited by MrMaddHatter (05/19/05 03:12 AM)


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Offlinedalorean
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: MrMaddHatter]
    #4193991 - 05/19/05 04:00 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Could it be the manure itself you think? Maybe your source of cow/horse generates from Fallout during the Nam bomb testing or something! Seriousely, does different poo retain different nutrients/nasty residues that other poo doesn't possess? Maybe spray chemicals on grass consumed by animal could play a factor? Has this ever been a contriversial theory?


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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: dalorean]
    #4193998 - 05/19/05 04:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Cow poo does that - often. Good weather aged h/poo seldom does, if pasturized right.


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OfflineSammy
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: agar]
    #4194434 - 05/19/05 09:35 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah.. I did a couple trays of H-Doo with Scatmanrav's substrate (coir, vermiculite, lil' straw and h poo) and Roadkills meathod, with just h-doo, and it's turned out fine. In the beginning it smells a little bit like "fresh earth" or something like that... but after the spawn run has gone a bit, it smells like our little friend the mushie.

Good lawk mang

Sam


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: agar]
    #4194880 - 05/19/05 12:23 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well, this round looks hosed. The smell intensified, and if I don't see growth in 15 hours, it usually means failure. I guess the supplements, 2% stevia leaf and 1% flax seed, in combination with the sterilization of he manure was too much. I'm going to take off the plastic wrap and see if that helps, but I think it's ruined. How frustrating.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4267291 - 06/07/05 12:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I spawned again without the stevia leaves, and this time the whole mess smells of fermentation. Yet this time the colonization isn't apparently affected since it's been 5 days and the top is nearly total covered and shows no signs of slowing down. My theory the smell is due to not waiting quite long enough for the spawn to colonize inside all the grain which may have caused some of the grains to ferment. As a percaution I am planning on giving the spawn an extra five days after full colonization of the top to make sure everything is done underneath.


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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4267423 - 06/07/05 01:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe you should try the pillowcase method of pasteurization.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4268539 - 06/07/05 05:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I used to use the pillowcase method all the time, but I thought I'd give agar's cooking tek a try to increase the amount of nutrient that stays in the poo rather than washed out. These trays seem to be colonizing okay, but there is a strong smell of fermentation from them (then again, I have a very high sense of smell). I am worried about that fermentation smell because it could well be that under the top colonized layer there is too much fermentation going on for the mycelium to colonize underneath. On the other hand, it could be that fermentation doesn't really stop mycelium growth at this stage. Who knows?

I do have a backup plan if these go south, so I guess I'll just wait and see. I would assume that the fermentation smell must go away eventually or the tray would stall underneath? I don't know. All the "experts" only seem to know what happens when everything works out perfectly, so I guess I'll just wait it out.

I have smelled bad smells at the onset of colonization, but this is the first time I've smelled strange smells after the whole top is well coloinized. If things are doing okay underneath, the smell should vanish I think in the next few days.


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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4268579 - 06/07/05 05:31 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If it was fully pasturized wet, fermentation is usualy caused by a higher than normal incubation tempurature & a heat spike - or surge.

You say you used my "cooking" method. What - did you do? Hydrate h/poo, place in a bag & heat the bag in a pot of water. What was the water temp? Was it in the 170/180F range & for how long?


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OfflineKalix
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: agar]
    #4268678 - 06/07/05 06:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Just a note on my experience, my thermometer was broke, so I didn't pasteurize my first PF casing to Poo spawn, and it's colonizing quickly without any strange smells at all... My poo was completely dry though, and I soaked it for like 8 hrs, in case there was still urine in it, then squeezed all the moisture out 'til not even a drop could be squeezed out between my fingers.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4269497 - 06/07/05 10:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The 9:1 manure:coir mix was moistened to the correct water content--no water would come out without a hard squeeze of a handful of stuff--and placed in a 9-gallon metal wash tub. The whole tub was placed in the oven set on warm (which is about 170F). It was evenly spread in the wash tub, covered with aluminum foil, and cooked for about 6 hours after which it reached 163F. Leaving the tub in the oven, I then turned off the oven. The temperature continued to rise about another 5 degrees over the next hour to about 167F. It then started to fall very slowly. After about 3 more hours, I decided to take out the washtub since it was still around 150F. I then cooled it in the open air to 95F (digitally confirmed and cool to the touch) and spawned it.

The manure was laid in double 12-quart white containers with insulative bubble wrap between the two (R value of about 15). The containers were covered with plastic wrap and pin holes were punched in the wrap about every 3 square inches. I am incubating in a room about 77F. The temperature on the plastic wrap is about 82F. I am guessing the core temperature is probably in the upper 80s.

I have no idea what happened, but there is definitely fermentation going on. I won't even try to case them until the smell is totally gone which could take a week or so I figure IF they don't stall inside.


Edited by Blue Helix (06/07/05 10:25 PM)


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Re: Smell right after spawning? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #9145805 - 10/28/08 01:46 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

mine smells pretty rank as well, i think he's correct in that it's fermentation. In my case it's bulgar wheat


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Coir, Vermiculite

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