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OfflineMixomatosis
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Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw?
    #4193513 - 05/19/05 01:23 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Let's say you're walking in a jungle and you come across a primitive people hunting fish with bows and arrows and chopping trees down with stone axes. Barefoot and indolent, these ignorant savages spend all day hacking at wood with ineffective tools. You happen to have a chainsaw that's been a mighty burden on your hike, so do you give it to the pygmies and make them oh so happy to have a better and more effective tool or do you mimic the petty deity that you as a north american are by deciding the people's way of life is better unadultered and toss the saw in the river?
Give them a chainsaw?
You may choose only one
YEs
nO


Votes accepted from (05/19/05 01:22 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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OfflineFrog
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4193522 - 05/19/05 01:25 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I said yes, but they probably don't have fuel, right?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4193532 - 05/19/05 01:26 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

hmm

now this is an interesting question i'm not ready to answer


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OfflineAdviapacis
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4193542 - 05/19/05 01:28 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I would consider a trade for a substantial amount of ethnogens. I would also come back with fuel and work on more trades.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Frog]
    #4193557 - 05/19/05 01:32 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

yes, I thought some of you might trip yourselves up on the fuel issue. I read that there are some plants in the amazon who's oils can power a diesel engine. So we'll say it's a diesel chainsaw and this is in the amazon.

Or, for those paranormal people out there, we'll say it's a "magic" chainsaw and these primitive people are "soooo" cool that they "create" their own "reality" so they can do anything... actually no, it's a normal chainsaw.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4193561 - 05/19/05 01:33 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Why adulterate their way of life through the introduction of technology?

They obviously for some reason wish to keep their way of life, or else they would've taken steps to integrate into society. Then as Frog brought up they won't have a further supply of fuel, and if they wish to utilize it further, they'd be dependant on the society providing the fuel.

Then you'd have to know their situation regarding enemies, how are you to know that it'd be put to legitimate use?

So many issues brought up with the introduction of technology to those that aren't adapted to its use (even those that are).


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4193667 - 05/19/05 02:06 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It's an interesting question. I've sometimes thought about what it would be like to go back in time to some war in the past and give one side modern weaponry.

Anyway, as to your question, I said yes. Nothing wrong with offering them something better. If they don't like it, they can refuse.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4193704 - 05/19/05 02:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I voted yes....    If they have fuel for it, why not....?    It might be traded later on down the road to knock down the price of a future purchase....    :grin:


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Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Invisibleflowstone
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4194098 - 05/19/05 05:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I voted no, because it would change things that are not supposed to be changed.
This example could spiritually be related to the giving of Jesus to the world. Send the ultimate message of love or leave us to our ways.

The worry of fuel is minor, after the fuel runs out, no doubt this 'tool of the gods' would be revered and kept in the tribe as sacred. Perhaps it would be the hand of god itself leading troops to victory in battle with the symbol of the chainsaw painted in blood on the flags.
Interesting to bring up weaponry in warfare, and how modern views could have changed so much... SO much.

But why change what is done. Why take our AK-47's back to the medieval times and mow down the knights on horseback. Why use power to dominate and technology to enslave. Why manipulate people with symbolism.
I'll tell you why! :mad2:


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these long agonizing months without you...have been long and agonizing..
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Only Decides Who's Left."


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OfflineNomad
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4194238 - 05/19/05 07:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I voted "No", but now I think I was wrong. The chainsaw would only be a temporary relief, but closer examination reveals that there is nothing wrong with that. The analogy would be that someone gives me enough money to live one year without work. I would be happy to take that money, even though I'd have to go back to a less relaxed lifestyle eventually.

Therefore, I must either grant them their chainsaw, or be a hypocrite.


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OfflineNomad
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Nomad]
    #4194242 - 05/19/05 07:23 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

But I would not give them the knowledge of how to produce or repair chainsaws. The possession and usage of one tool is so much temporary that it is unlikely that there are negative lasting consequences for the tribe.


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OfflineDoom
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Nomad]
    #4194568 - 05/19/05 10:40 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I would just chainsaw the whole tribe, take a mud bath in their pureed formerselves, meditate on the nature of physiology and then proceed to build a glorious throne out of their little amazonian skulls.

where I would sit upon and gaze at the dreamless starscape, holding dialog with the givers and takers of the unknowable lifeforce.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Doom]
    #4194666 - 05/19/05 11:19 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Funny I was thinking the same thing.  Well, not exactly the SAME thing.  :grin:  Must be white man "eminent domain" training.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4194698 - 05/19/05 11:29 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I really dont see them as ignorant people. They do every thing how they want to do it.

Chain saws are complicated in that they need repair chains get dull gas gets burned. They would probably end up hurting themselfs do to they dont know the concepts behind propper cutting tech.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: flowstone]
    #4194721 - 05/19/05 11:35 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

flowstone said:
I voted no, because it would change things that are not supposed to be changed.



Who are you to say what is or is not supposed to change?


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OfflineKalix
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4194789 - 05/19/05 11:56 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I said Yes, but what I meant is I would take it to the wisest elder of the tribe, explain to them the use of the chainsaw, offer it as a gift, and let them decide if they would use it, or not..


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My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4194797 - 05/19/05 11:59 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

ultimately i would give it to them. It hurt me to carry it. To throw it in the river would mean to hurt the river. I would leave it on the ground near them; they could take it if they wished.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: vampirism]
    #4194955 - 05/19/05 12:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

""Or, for those paranormal people out there, we'll say it's a "magic" chainsaw and these primitive people are "soooo" cool that they "create" their own "reality" so they can do anything... actually no, it's a normal chainsaw. ""

LOL
you made a funny!


oh.. how bout chain oil? i know from many hour in the woods, do not don't lubricate the chain.. trust me.. just do it! :wink:


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Gomp]
    #4195098 - 05/19/05 01:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

What prompted me to start this thread was something I read about a primitive tribe coming in contact with modern people for the first time. First they were given technology then somebody made the decision that we should stop trading stuff with them because it was corrupting their way of life, so they were like "fuck you then" and went to someone else to make trades and gain access to metal and the like. Some people believe that these people should be left alone and not granted the use of modern technology even if they want it.

Should we stand back and not approach these peoples or ease the physical labour of their lives by giving them some technology?

If you ask me there's no difference either way. Just take a look at us: There was a time when everything was done really inneficiently with typewriters and snail mail. Boom, computers have appeared and they make everything a million times more efficient but does that mean our work day is 2 hours instead of 8? Strangely enough, no. We choose to keep working the same amount. The tribesperson will spend 3 days on one tree or, if we give him the chainsaw, will cut the tree down in 5 minutes and then get on to his next task, or will use the 3 days to chop down a whole forest.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Would you give a primitive tribesperson a chainsaw? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #4195109 - 05/19/05 01:30 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

This can only lead to trouble in the long run.

Lets assume that you give them the chain saw and show them the tree/bush that will keep it running.

In order to be safe your going to have to teach them how to use it properly. How to start/stop it. How to put the chain back on. How to fell a tree w/out it hitting something/someone.

If you don't then this is going to become a dangerous thing.

Even if you do it will still become a dangerous thing.

They praise you as a God for giving them this "tree cutting tool". The change their whole life style because they can easily get things that were hard to get before. Other tribes will become envious and will want to have this "tree cutting tool" for themself, and wage war to claim it.

The owners of this tool realize that this "tree cutting tool" is also a good "person cutting tool", and many people will die.

One way or another this little chain saw will lead to tribal war. The elders will deem it an "evil presence" and toss it in the river.


So just save them the trouble and toss it in the river.....

..or bury it in the ground....


..or leave it at home in the first place.....jk :wink:


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