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InvisibleSoopaX
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Compost Tea Liquid Culture
    #4191130 - 05/18/05 03:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I started this post in the regular forum and it was so quickly brushed to page three with all of the new posts, I figured I'd rather
find a new home for it than bump it frequently.

I'm posting this to contribute a new "technique", I suppose, to the Shroomery, but also to ask for advice. Any information that you may have will be greatly appreciated.

So, I'm out of Karo syrup and don't feel like going to get more. I've got hundreds of lbs of the compost that I use for shroom growing and I've used that to make compost tea before.  My thought was to make some compost tea, filter the compost out of it so that no sediment or particular matter gets in the mix, dilute it just enough that I can see if mycelia is growing or not, sterilize it in half pint wide mouth mason jars, inoculate it with my super-dark cambodian spore syringe (a 5" diameter print in one 10mL syringe, should give rather quick results :smile: ).

Steps thus far,

1) Sifted the compost to remove any large chunks and boiled in water.  I let it boil for about 20 minutes, not really as a sterilization method, just to leech out as many nutrients as possible.  Then I filtered it, and placed it in the fridge to allow the particulate matter to settle down to the bottom. 

Next morning I filtered the mass again and pulled out a lot of the little floaties. It's in the fridge again until tonight when I can start PC'ing loads. 

I'm going to do four half pint jars and inject about a half a CC of SUPER dark spore solution into each one, then incubate as regular. I'm fairly sure that this will work, the liquid culture idea is viable (As has been demonstrated with karo / carbo water) and I know that mushrooms LOVE this compost.



[edit]  I just realized that this compost mixture might not have enough carbohydrates to really get things brewing on a mycelial level, so I chopped up some straw and am boiling that.  After a ~20minute boil, i'll filter the straw out and mix the liquids.  This should get some of the starches from the straw into the liquid.

I'll keep ya posted :wink:


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Offlinexburn
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4192056 - 05/18/05 07:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

for liquid teks i recomened pints with agars tek for surgical tubing with polyfill. Mainly because the gotta breath dont they. plus pints are easier to swirl and you get more bang for your buck


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: xburn]
    #4192136 - 05/18/05 07:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

yea, if I had some I'd use them.  I just did about 350mL in a quart jar for shits and giggles.  This spore syringe is VERY dark, I bet that 1mL would equal 5-10 vendor-syringes :smile:  So I'm expecting a lot of growth. We'll see.


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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4192158 - 05/18/05 07:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

keep me updated wei


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4192804 - 05/18/05 10:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

OK, the liquid was PC'ed. 15 minutes @ 15psi, this was in jars that were cleaned with bleach/water and misted with rubbing alcohol. The liquid had also been brought to a 20 minute rolling boil on the stove top, so i'm fairly sure that this will do it as far as sterilization. Cooling now, more to come.


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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: xburn]
    #4194152 - 05/19/05 05:34 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

xburn said:
Mainly because the gotta breath dont they.



This was grown with no air exchange/filter. If you shake the jar well it will aerate the liquid, after boiling most of the gases are driven out of the liquid.
This is a photo after about 100ml of thick mycelium liquid was drawn off.



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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: blackout]
    #4194183 - 05/19/05 06:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)





It is not critical that liquid culture jars have a gas exchange provision, if once fully colonized you stall then with refrideration.

Otherwise, they will eventualy go bad, the same as a colonizing wbs/rye/grain/ jar without a gas exchange filter will.

I just prefer lids with a gas exchange provision, as above. It makes asperation of the culture easy. I also use a stir plate & stir bars, because I have them to use.


You just plug one of these into an LC jar & you are ready to knock up bags......all day long.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4195539 - 05/19/05 02:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:My thought was to make some compost tea, filter the compost out of it so that no sediment or particular matter gets in the mix, dilute it just enough that I can see if mycelia is growing or not, sterilize it in half pint wide mouth mason jars, inoculate it with my super-dark cambodian spore syringe (a 5" diameter print in one 10mL syringe, should give rather quick results :smile: ).





Cool - I've got a similar experiment going, check out this  thread.

Unfortunately, my first try was a failure because I had a bum syringe - no results in any of my cultures, w/ tea and w/o.

I've since gotten a successful culture going with a new syringe from a different vendor - the only 1 out of the three control cultures were successfull.

I've got some tea brewing right now, that I'm going to use as culture alongside another control culture of just karo, should be ready by tonight - these will be inoculated together to see how they compare while growing in the LC, and (more importantly) later on, when they're inoculated straight onto compost -- if things go according to theory, the tea-LC will colonize the compost faster than the karo-LC.


Quote:

I'll keep ya posted




Killer - me too.

The difference is that I'll be adding the normal amount of karo w/ the tea LC, rather than just pure tea (and straw) like with what you're doing. Also, I'll be doing this alongside a regular pure karo LC for comparison purposes. Finally, these LC mediums (the control[karo] and test[karo + tea] ) will be innoc'd w/ pan cyan ( rather than ps. cubensis ), using germinated isolate taken from some spawn already grown out on compost ( rather than a phat multi-spore syringe ).  So it'll be fun to watch and see what happens w/ both our experiments as they have some interesting differences and parallels -- I'm guessing like you, that the tea-LC will out-perform the usual karo/dextrose LC.

Beers!


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: VALIS]
    #4195931 - 05/19/05 04:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Very cool experiment man.  I'm hoping that this LC-pootea works pretty nice, I don't see any real reason that it won't. I know that I can make liquid culture sucessfully, my sterile technique is "teh shit" and, well, I don't think that spores would dislike growing in this nutrient rich media :smile:


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4210485 - 05/23/05 04:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

This mixture is EXPLODING with mycelial growth. INSANE amount of growth.


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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4210527 - 05/23/05 04:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
This mixture is EXPLODING with mycelial growth. INSANE amount of growth.




hope its from the spores - and no contam  :thumbup:
it can be quite hard to tell sometimes with LC.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: ohmatic]
    #4210653 - 05/23/05 05:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, I'm used to doing LC but I usually use light karo syrup and the mixture is translucent. This stuff is a bit darker. I see what I recognize as beginning stages of mycelia growing from the black lumps in the mixture. I used a SUPER dark spore syringe (One 5" cap made into one 12mL syringe) and I put 1cc into the half pint jars and 4cc's into the quart jar. It looks how I expected it to, I just wish it was a leeeetle bit clearer so I could see exactly what was happening.


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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4210675 - 05/23/05 05:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
I just wish it was a leeeetle bit clearer so I could see exactly what was happening.




maybe next time filter it two or three times more before using it?
that should clear it up.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4210716 - 05/23/05 05:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yup, ya need to dilute & filter it, to a very very light transparent beer/coffee color.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: ohmatic]
    #4210723 - 05/23/05 05:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, I let it cool in the fridge overnight and then filtered it again. I used a "permanent coffee filter" as the regular paper ones were clogging up immediately. Next time I'll cool it in the fridge and set up my ring stand to hold it so I can allow it to filter out better.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: agar]
    #4210726 - 05/23/05 05:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

OK, i'll dilute it out more next time. I'm probably going to make another batch tonight, actually, since this seems to be working so well.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4211312 - 05/23/05 08:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think that I'm going to tenatively state that this is a success. I am saying this based on the visual appearance of the jars when swirled and shaken.  I can see clusters of spores, black specks, with white fuzz growing outward from them radially.  I recognize this from karo-syrup liquid culture and I'm sure it's the same phenomenon.  In about a week I should know for sure and hopefuly have pictures.  Just my predictions :smile:

The reason that I like this over something that is proven, such as Karo/water, is that now I have one less thing to buy.  The compost and straw are so cheap (20$ for a "truckload", 25$ delivered, I order it for my garden each year and pack away a few lbs for other uses) that I'd prefer to just have to buy them.  I also like the idea of the mycealia starting out in such a nutrient rich environment, then being transfered to the same environment (the straw and the compost).  Mainly though, it's just one less thing to buy.


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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4211784 - 05/23/05 10:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

would poo tea/ compost tea have enough nutrients in it alone for an LC. or would adding 3 or four grams of malt or dextrose be beneficaial. I just wonder what the % of sugar is in poo/compost tea.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: xburn]
    #4212073 - 05/23/05 11:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not sure that it's just sugar that matters. I'm making another brew now that is comprised of a few nutrient sources..


First I took the 'broth' resulting from a simmer/soak of wild bird seed. This is pretty dark shit so I figure it's got some nutrients, mainly carbohydrates.

Then I boiled some straw and some compost, in different pots, saving the liquid. I added some coffee grinds to the compost so that it would give up some of it's caffeine. Then I boiled this down to about 10 cups of liquid and put it in the fridge to cool and condense. I'm going to try to get ALL of the particulate matter out of this, then I'm going to dilute it with enough water so I can see what the hell is going on in it.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: Compost Tea Liquid Culture [Re: SoopaX]
    #4212170 - 05/23/05 11:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
I think that I'm going to tenatively state that this is a success.




Same here.

I had a few failures, due to at first using much too high of a tea-to-h20 ratio, not filtering the tea; and also due to this failed notion I had that a small measure of solid compost in the LC would somehow be beneficial... ( nope! ).

I brewed up another one two days ago and it appears to be rockin'.

50mls h20
2 mls karo
10 mls filtered compost tea
.5 (1/2) cc multi spore ( pan cyan )

It's doing well, at only 2 days - not globs of course or anything like that, but I can already see specs and strands of myc. I would like to filter it even better next time, as there is some compost particles floating around that can be dificult to differentiate... but I think that won't be an issue in a few more days.

Next chance I get, I'm also going to do this under more controlled circumstances for better comparison between a tea LC and non-tea LC. As it is, my "control" had a larger amount of MS solution ( 1cc vs. 1/2 cc ); and the fact that I'm using multi spore is inherently less accurate for strict testing purposes.

I think a better method ( for testing/comparison ) would be to drop identicle agar isolates into both the test and control LC's. This is my next task - just got to order some petri dishes!


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Edited by VALIS (05/24/05 12:04 AM)


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