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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: spud]
    #4187481 - 05/17/05 03:50 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

all dimensions is at the one.. :P


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Disclaimer!?

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4187486 - 05/17/05 03:51 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Dimensions are merely coordinates in space-time. All four are necessary to pinpoint or describe an object. My hair is brown and curly. Is the color dependent on the texture or does the question even make sense?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Swami]
    #4187509 - 05/17/05 03:57 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Okay. Granted. Shouldn't have said that. However, they are subsets of space, which in itself is not dependent on anything, is it? How about time?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4187534 - 05/17/05 04:04 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

There is no time without movement as it is a measure of movement.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Registered: 04/27/03
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Swami]
    #4187578 - 05/17/05 04:12 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

:bitch:
Anybody here actually understand relativety, which, is what your all talking about?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Time & Movement [Re: Swami]
    #4187599 - 05/17/05 04:16 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

"dimensions" are merely a mathematical construct used to explain distance and separation between points and objects.

In math, you can have "spaces" which exist with one, two, three, four, or N dimensions.

So if you can have a space with only one dimension, which obviously isn't dependant on any other dimensions (being the only one), then what makes you think a space with three dimensions requires that each dimension be dependant on the other dimensions?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4187602 - 05/17/05 04:17 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Time is dependent on movement which means something has to be moving. That requires the space of the 3rd for the movement to take place and the first and second to create objects to move within space of Height Width depth.

Time doesn't exist without the other 3 dimensions in play.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: trendal]
    #4187609 - 05/17/05 04:18 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

In fact, I would say that by definition dimensions must be independant from eachother:

you can move in only one dimension, and while doing so can ignore any other dimensions because you are moving independantly in only a single dimension.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4187622 - 05/17/05 04:20 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Time doesn't exist without the other 3 dimensions in play.

True, which is what the original post was trying to point out.

However any of the 3 spatial dimensions can exist independantly from the other two - you do not need to use length or width to define height.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4187702 - 05/17/05 04:35 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

" Supposedly, movement is a function of distance and time."

I understand a little bit, but could you expand on this?  sorry!  I studied physics a little bit and so when I see something is a function of something else, I start seeing equations :wink:

"I'd say time is a function of movement and not 'real' in itself. If nothing moves (including subatomic particles), how can time be measured?"


there are a couple versions of time we can discuss here.  there is the "time" on earth which IS a function of distance.  we know this because we have "time zones"  in this case if nothing moves measuring anything isn't possible. Putting that aside, it would be interesting to see what happens at O kelvin. (wish I had my book with me!)

"Does time even exist when nothing moves? Can time be measured by any other means than the movement of things"

well time is a man made concept to help us explain certain situations.  Man created time because things do move.

"And one more thing: aren't dimensions supposed to be independent of other factors? If time can only be determined by using movement, which is in turn a function of distance (3 dimensions), then can it really be called a dimension?"

there are a couple of ways to take this (again).  if you take vector calculus, we can make as many dimensions as we want.

literally speaking..we have a lot to think about considering the space-time continuum, after all it is a theory.  in this case it could be iffy to call time a dimension.  not mention humans are using a version of time that is on earth, to help explain when time is like in the universe.  it could be a whole new process coming up real quick (as in a whole new field of study)


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: kaiowas]
    #4187715 - 05/17/05 04:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

The thing is Kaio, you can't see how interesting it would be if everything froze to zero kelvin. You and your ability to see are a part of everything. You would be frozen dead yourself.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (05/17/05 04:39 PM)

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Posts: 5,501
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4187742 - 05/17/05 04:44 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
The thing is Kaio, you can't see how interesting it would be if everything froze to zero kelvin. You and your ability to see are a part of everything. You would be frozen dead yourself.




:lol:  I know that!  by see I mean, being the outside...OUTSIDE observer....maybe god?    hehehehe


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Time & Movement [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4187750 - 05/17/05 04:45 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

This is a misconception, that being cooled to absolute zero causes the cessation of all motion. It doesn't.

It means the cessation of all thermal motion. Electrons still orbit atoms, and the atoms themselves are still movable.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: trendal]
    #4187768 - 05/17/05 04:50 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

but tren..I'd still be dead :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Time & Movement [Re: kaiowas]
    #4187807 - 05/17/05 05:00 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yes you would be uber-dead, frozen stiffer than the stiffest stiffy :grin:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Time & Movement [Re: kaiowas]
    #4187811 - 05/17/05 05:00 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Herro~ Kaiowas....!    :heart:

Putting that aside, it would be interesting to see what happens at O kelvin. (wish I had my book with me!)
.
"Does time even exist when nothing moves? Can time be measured by any other means than the movement of things"


I believe that 0 Kelvin is where everything collapses....  If there can be no movement, the atom's electrons would not be able to orbit, and everything would stop moving and collapse.... 

The question would be if these collapsed atoms would gravitate to each other and create a gravitational force of condensed "matter"....?  (a foundation for blackholes?)

But, I have not taken Physics, nor studied it(in case it is a "known" theory)....  This is just a theory of mine....  :smile:


:sun:


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Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: trendal]
    #4187813 - 05/17/05 05:01 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yes tren, humans couldn't survive it to see what it would be like and thanks for adding to my argument in a recent post for how there is still movement in stillness meditation. :heart: :wink:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Time & Movement [Re: kaiowas]
    #4187820 - 05/17/05 05:03 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
The thing is Kaio, you can't see how interesting it would be if everything froze to zero kelvin. You and your ability to see are a part of everything. You would be frozen dead yourself.




:lol:  I know that!  by see I mean, being the outside...OUTSIDE observer....maybe god?    hehehehe




I have feeling that is what Alan was playing with that inspired this post but he won't cough up.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Time & Movement [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4187898 - 05/17/05 05:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

To expound some thought, if 0 Kelvin created a remote collapse like this, and also created a "one way" gravitational force(if it works like that?), would 0 Kelvin be considered 1-dimensional....?  With the collapse of space, there would be only a point of matter, and everything would be sucked into it if it created a gravitational force....(?)  But then, space would still exsist because it is not effected by gravity....(?)  Hhhhhmmmmm....

:sun:


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Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4188056 - 05/17/05 05:49 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I first starting wondering if gravity pulls would still move things around in a zero kelvin state and then........couldn't put into together worth posting. I just confused and don't know enough about physics.

Would gravitational forces even still be at play in the universe if it all froze?

I wish someone could get a ball rolling on that angle anyway for fun.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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