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OfflineAlan Stone
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Time & Movement
    #4185943 - 05/17/05 12:14 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Supposedly, movement is a function of distance and time. I'd say time is a function of movement and not 'real' in itself. If nothing moves (including subatomic particles), how can time be measured?

Does time even exist when nothing moves? Can time be measured by any other means than the movement of things?

And one more thing: aren't dimensions supposed to be independent of other factors? If time can only be determined by using movement, which is in turn a function of distance (3 dimsensions), then can it really be called a dimension?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineDoom
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4185973 - 05/17/05 12:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Does time even exist when nothing moves?

when nothing moves?


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Doom]
    #4185981 - 05/17/05 12:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If nothing is moving. If everything is standing still. 0 Kelvin.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Edited by Alan Stone (05/17/05 12:25 PM)


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OfflineDoom
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4185993 - 05/17/05 12:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

do you have a record of nothing moving? perhaps a video?


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Doom]
    #4186004 - 05/17/05 12:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have several photographs and paintings. Don't troll, I'm right here under the bridge, waiting.

Even if 0 Kelvin is not a possible situation... if time is dependent on movement, shouldn't that disqualify it as a dimension?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4186036 - 05/17/05 12:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

when nothing moves, it could still, be motion..

still ... motion

:wink:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Gomp]
    #4186041 - 05/17/05 12:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

""And one more thing: aren't dimensions supposed to be independent of other factors? If time can only be determined by using movement, which is in turn a function of distance (3 dimsensions), then can it really be called a dimension?""

What if..

Those 3 dimensions, are the 4'th dimension.. (and so on)


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Gomp]
    #4186095 - 05/17/05 01:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

When thinking about these things, I never seek full understanding from a physical scientific perspective. It might be hardpressed to explain some things. I believe that spiritual time exists in higher realms. There is still seasonal/cyclical change, but our bodies never age and time wears nothing down. In this spirit realm we all one day return to, we still retain our individuality; when the drop of water goes back into the ocean, it does not change quantitatively in size. This line of thinking is from Hari Krishna.

Makes sense. I mean, for example, if you try to move around during astral travel, it's almost as though you stay still and move the world in relation to your position. It's like there is no time or space, but things must always exist in such a way that oneness *and* individuality may be simultaneously expressed, so time and space are continuously created. How they apply to our selves is perhaps a question of which self, our higher or lower selves, we're talking about.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4186165 - 05/17/05 01:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

*this is an empty post*, hit that delet button will ya?



Edit


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Edited by Gomp (05/17/05 01:24 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4186340 - 05/17/05 01:55 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

And one more thing: aren't dimensions supposed to be independent of other factors?

Where do you come up with this nonsense? Have you ever seen a box with height, but no width or depth?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDoom
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4186366 - 05/17/05 01:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
Even if 0 Kelvin is not a possible situation... if time is dependent on movement, shouldn't that disqualify it as a dimension?




you should have a drink or something, watch some porn, eat some peanut butter.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Doom]
    #4186679 - 05/17/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

""eat some peanut butter. ""

ha ha.. made "me" think of this movie.. :smile:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Swami]
    #4186822 - 05/17/05 03:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
And one more thing: aren't dimensions supposed to be independent of other factors?

Where do you come up with this nonsense? Have you ever seen a box with height, but no width or depth?




That's what I was going to ask. Where did the idea come from the spatial dimensions are independent of other factors? They all require each other to be.

Yes, your painting is a 2 dimensional still that could not exist without the 3rd dimension to house it in making it a flat still and without the 4th dimension of time/movement it could not have even been created.

Dimensions are just space within space within space. Something can't be without the space for it to be and it can't be known or realized without it being placed in another dimensional form of space/time.

A one dimensional dot doesn't exist without it being seen as that in a two dimensional shape and that doesn't exist without it being seen from a 3 dimensional shape and for all of that to happen, you needed to be in the 4th dimension of time/movement that created the space for it all to happen.

There's nothing to discuss with an assumption that dimensions are independent of other factors.

What were you getting at? Maybe re-word your premise :confused:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4187237 - 05/17/05 04:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

all dimensions is at this one.. :P


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Swami]
    #4187368 - 05/17/05 05:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Where do you come up with this nonsense? Have you ever seen a box with height, but no width or depth?



I see, that entirely debunks the fact that space is not dependent on any other thing. Stop reading what you want to read and read what it says.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4187382 - 05/17/05 05:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, your painting is a 2 dimensional still that could not exist without the 3rd dimension to house it in making it a flat still and without the 4th dimension of time/movement it could not have even been created.
Dimensions are just space within space within space. Something can't be without the space for it to be and it can't be known or realized without it being placed in another dimensional form of space/time.
A one dimensional dot doesn't exist without it being seen as that in a two dimensional shape and that doesn't exist without it being seen from a 3 dimensional shape and for all of that to happen, you needed to be in the 4th dimension of time/movement that created the space for it all to happen.



Nice trueisms. However, isn't space independent of anything else? Aren't spatial dimensions internally dependent but independent of anything else? Space is not a result of anything.

I, however, contend that time does have a cause.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Gomp]
    #4187397 - 05/17/05 05:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
all dimensions is at this one.. :P




That can be said the same for any one you are in.

I stretched to see one independent from the others and all I could realize with the stretching was how I had to use all the others to do that.

I see each as having a function that makes the one even exist.

If I just remove on from the equation, the whole system get sucks up into the void again.

That doesn't mean we can't talk about the functions of each and their interdependency on how they work together to make it all happen. :heart:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4187401 - 05/17/05 05:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Are you unable to answer the question? Yes or no would suffice.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Swami]
    #4187460 - 05/17/05 05:46 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Of course not. But does that mean width, depth and length are dependent on eachother? Does coexistence imply dependency?

Communication by means of a forum can hardly be termed the ideal medium. Ask questions instead of jumping to conclusions.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Invisiblespud
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Re: Time & Movement [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4187474 - 05/17/05 05:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
Does coexistence imply dependency?




Coexistence with correlation does imply dependency. Since width, depth and length are always found together, there is a strong correlation. In fact, the odds of finding them together would have a correlation coefficient of +1.0, a perfect relationship. So to answer your question, yes it does imply dependency.


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