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OfflineKristiMidocean
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Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 3,702
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Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
suicide selfish??
    #4177694 - 05/15/05 12:10 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I dont know what is wrong with me.... I just recently had a friend kill herself leaving behind hunderds of frineds, 3 childern a husband good home and job, and tons and tons of loving family....


Her lately (its been about a month) I can't help but feel that she is the most selfish person I know! I have other friends right now that want to kill themselfs and I know I should be there for them ut I can...... I cant help but feel really mad at them for being soo stupid and selfish... Think about it..... They think their "issues" are sooo bad ad the only way to fix it is end their life...... well shit what about the people you are leaving behind.... YOUR NOT THINKNG ABOUT HOW IT WILL EFFECT OTHER PEOPLE........ STOP THINKING ABOUT YOU AND YOURSELF.......... sooo many people will suffer from your lose........ YOu know time can only heel "issues" but there is not enough time in the world to feel the hole in peoples lives when you kill yourself......

AM I WROng? Should I be more compassionate??? NO BECAUSE WHEN THAT PERSON TOOK THEIR LIFE THEY WERENT BEING COMPASSIONATE JUST SELFISH

right??


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:smile: I live for LNC :smile:


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OfflineOrganic
Lloyd

Registered: 04/14/02
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: KristiMidocean]
    #4177759 - 05/15/05 12:30 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

So if a person who has no friends and family kills themself its more righteous because it won't hurt anyone else?

Their suffering was obviously worse than your resulting suffering, I think you should be more compassionate.


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OfflineniCCa
BwaBwaHan
Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 219
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: Organic]
    #4177895 - 05/15/05 12:59 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

boths sides are selfish...the living ones selfish cause they want others to continue living wt pain & the suiciders selfish for taking shortcut....i may be very wrong...i just dont know


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Heaveno...CU CU CU CU CU in the Highway...Peace


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: Organic]
    #4178161 - 05/15/05 01:56 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Organic said:
So if a person who has no friends and family kills themself its more righteous because it won't hurt anyone else?

Their suffering was obviously worse than your resulting suffering, I think you should be more compassionate.



I'm gonna have to agree. You may be in pain right now, but obviously not as much pain as they were going through. Their life is not yours, it's theirs. They don't owe it to you or anyone else to stay alive.


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InvisibleDieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 28,165
Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: KristiMidocean]
    #4178537 - 05/15/05 03:38 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Your right on the money. Suicide is selfish, especially if they leave kids behind. If you decide to make kids, its your responsibility to care for them for 18 years. People dont exist in a vacuum, we all depend on others and others depend on us. I think this is a grave underlying problem of our culture- No one is willing to take responsibility for there actions, and life.


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
Male

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: KristiMidocean]
    #4178665 - 05/15/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Of course they've thought about what will happen to their family and friends if they kill themselves. You don't seem to understand that you can get to a point where you just don't give a fuck how anyone will feel when you die.

I can tell you've never been in this situation... people who haven't just can't understand it.

Suicide is a good way at getting back at the ones closest to you. Sometimes those are the ones you want to punish.

Is it selfish to end yourself from being in constant pain and agony? I don't think so.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4179202 - 05/15/05 07:05 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

It's wrong to say that a suicide victim was in more pain than the ones left behind. Suicide is a choice, pain is a feeling. Plenty of people live with a lot of pain and don't choose to commit suicide. Very few people committed suicide in the WWII concentration camps for example. Suicide is -one choice- that comes from dealing with the pain. It's wrong to underestimate the pain of the living. Many people are in more pain some may think. Most people are in more pain than they show. They may not always talk about it or show it because most choose to find ways to cope and live with it.

Some people are more prone to commit suicide. I remember reading studies in college that showed that *hopeful* people are less prone for example. What does that mean, hope prevents people from committing suicide? Hope is a feeling about the future. For example, "Things are awful today, but I think they will get better tomorrow, so I won't kill myself so I can wait for that." A person experiencing the SAME PAIN but without hope would say, "Things are awful today and they're never going to get better. I'm killing myself."

Suicide is selfish. The suicidal person may not think so. Really depressed people rarely realize how important they are to others.

Also suicide can act as a chain reaction. Mr X commits suicide, Mr X's friend is more likely to commit suicide. Sadly, people are more likely to think of suicide as a real option when people close to them do it. After my friend threatened suicide I started thinking dark thoughts like how easy it would be for me for example. I'm not even a depressed person! I'm one of those people who bounces back quickly when shit comes their way. I'm extremely low-risk. But my friend's suicide threats had even ME thinking about suicide for a few days!

I've spoke with a psych prof who counselled survivors. He said, parents rarely if ever recover from it. They're asking themselves, "What could I have done different?" for the rest of their lives.

There are other ways to deal with pain than suicide!


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4179662 - 05/15/05 09:17 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think it matters to a suicidal person if they're death causes pain to their friends and family. They'll be dead... to them, those friends and family no longer exist.


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PsyPost - Psychedelic Research


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InvisibleLe_Canard
Slightly Nutty

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,957
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: KristiMidocean]
    #4179686 - 05/15/05 09:28 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

While it is a bit selfish when you look at it objectively, but, having been in the darkest abyss of depression, I can say that one doesn't think of such things. If you haven't been there, it's hard to explain and understand.....


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InvisibleMOTH
Wild Woman
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,368
Loc: In the jungle
Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4180021 - 05/15/05 10:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
While it is a bit selfish when you look at it objectively, but, having been in the darkest abyss of depression, I can say that one doesn't think of such things.




I agree. I feel suicide IS selfish but also understandable. I can understand why people commit suicide, having been in that frame of mind myself many time. It is also every man's choice.

And it may be a selfish choice, but people have the right to choose when they want to check out from this world or not. It's sadly a choice which changes not only their life, but the lives of everyone who cared for them. That's why suicide feels like a tragedy every time.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4180158 - 05/15/05 11:08 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Organic said:
So if a person who has no friends and family kills themself its more righteous because it won't hurt anyone else?

Their suffering was obviously worse than your resulting suffering, I think you should be more compassionate.



I'm gonna have to agree.  You may be in pain right now, but obviously not as much pain as they were going through.  Their life is not yours, it's theirs.  They don't owe it to you or anyone else to stay alive.




Very true Paradigm. You put it well. But fear of death is rampant and other people will most likely will not understand. Each person needs to take responsibility for being here in material reality where death is part of life. I tend to think that people who cannot get over someone elses death, must think death is the end. I don't think it is. Maybe it's the beginning. Or the waking. I feel that's true, I have had friends who killed themselves and I have had friends who just died. It was all the same. Some times people just can't get over death period. I myself look forward to that adventure. Whenever it is time, by my had, or not. :mushroom2:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKristiMidocean
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Registered: 01/27/05
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: Icelander]
    #4180378 - 05/16/05 12:06 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I understand full yof what it feels like to be in the darkest of depression.. I have been there. I have attemped to kill myself before... and when I woke up in the hospital I have to say I have never been soo glad to be alive......
I also know that any pain you are going through any dark dark days will pass...you just have to wait it out... DEATH however is finally.. you cant get passed that.... The pain of someone dying is forever....... DEPRESSION IS NOT


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: KristiMidocean]
    #4181193 - 05/16/05 05:01 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Suicides are not all depressed. Some are in great physical pain. There may be other reasons.

You know everyone is selfish. It's part of being a self. Even if you are giving and loving, it makes you feel good or right, first it is for yourself. Nothing wrong in being selfish. In fact it is quite natural.

To put others needs ahead of your own, leads to great spiritual harm.

I don't feel one way or the other about suicide, or death.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 10 years, 30 days
Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: Icelander]
    #4184718 - 05/17/05 01:46 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i believe a suicidal person's pain cannot be discounted. but neither can anyone else's pain. other people's pain is as real as one's own.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinebrowndustin
dustybuddy

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 2,957
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4184773 - 05/17/05 01:59 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

If someone's bitching and moaning about their life and does nothing but wallow in self pity until their demise then I'd definitely deem that as selfish. But there's far too many variables to start being a bitch about things at the same time.

It's a gray area topic that I think can really go no where. It varies from person to person, friend to friend, and family, etc. I'd personally keep my opinions openly at this point in time, but I'd certainly say that it wasn't the most compassionate thing to do. Highly irresponsible but again, you could hurt a lot of people by saying things. I'd just keep quiet and try to not think about it too much, death's a terrible thing. Let everyone grieve I suppose.


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When the stress burns my brain it's like acid raindrops
maryjane is the only thing that makes the pain stop


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Invisiblebudsicle
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Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 232
Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: browndustin]
    #4185538 - 05/17/05 09:02 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

so you say that the person who throws away all the possible fun there might still be waiting for him/her in life is selfish? isnt it the person him/herself that is ultimately losing the most when committing such act


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OfflineKristiMidocean
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: budsicle]
    #4185922 - 05/17/05 12:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Yes I am saying that! everyone loses when someone kills themself! EVERYONE


DEATH is not an answer for a problem..


--------------------
:smile: I live for LNC :smile:


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
Male

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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: budsicle]
    #4185928 - 05/17/05 12:09 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think of suicide as 'losing something'.

You really think you're gonna give a fuck about anything when you're dead?

No, because you no longer exist.

Even if someone does live a life full of happiness and dies at an old age, it's all the same in the end.


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OfflineKristiMidocean
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4186010 - 05/17/05 12:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I dont personally believe that when you die there is no more


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:smile: I live for LNC :smile:


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Offlinebrowndustin
dustybuddy

Registered: 10/03/03
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Re: suicide selfish?? [Re: KristiMidocean]
    #4189699 - 05/18/05 03:55 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

There's a difference between dying now, and dying later. Time is relative. For the sake of your family, who probably loves you, it's make them feel nicer 'n stuff to have you around longer and die when you're saggy and pruney. :heart:

It generally gets people down when someone takes their life regardless if they're loved or not. Just creates a gloomy atmosphere.


--------------------
When the stress burns my brain it's like acid raindrops
maryjane is the only thing that makes the pain stop


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