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OfflineJesusChrist
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Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap?
    #4176792 - 05/15/05 02:16 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap?

By Clive Crook, National Journal
? National Journal Group Inc.
Friday, May 13, 2005

There are many kinds of anti-capitalism. The most militant variety, involving street protests and kicked-in windows, has subsided a little lately. But this was never the most important kind. A broader, milder, even cordial, discontent with capitalism saturates Western culture. It has become so familiar that it barely registers at the conscious level. But the feeling is there, and it creates the climate in which public policy is framed.

Sipping a cup of Starbucks Fair Trade Blend -- the kind that guarantees growers a "living wage," while encouraging "equitable and sustainable development" (as opposed to the more normal kind of coffee, which enslaves the poor and is leading the planet to destruction) -- I note that May 14 is World Fair Trade Day. Many events are planned. To mention just one: a chocolate tasting and fashion show in Olympia, Wash., which sounds like fun, as long as things do not get out of hand. Sample the goods and pick up your material on economic injustice.

The conviction that ordinary economic transactions are morally tainted -- or amoral, at any rate -- is not just a preoccupation of grassroots handwringers. Leading politicians of both main parties in the United States appear to think the same way, especially when it comes to worrying about the effect of surging imports on American jobs. The market is blind. The market has no feelings. The market is incompetent, or so it is argued, to make these choices.

In Europe the same is true, only more so. Now and then, its politicians become hysterical on the subject. Franz Muntefering, chairman of Germany's ruling Social Democratic Party, has just condemned foreign investors (companies that have transferred capital to the German economy) as "swarms of locusts that fall on companies, stripping them bare before moving on." There's gratitude. But the comment played well. Predictably, demands have followed for boycotts of "socially irresponsible" companies, and for curbs on top executives' pay. Watch Germany's struggling economy spring back to life once those recommendations are acted on.

Church leaders are none too keen on capitalism, either. A few days ago, one of Britain's most eminent spiritual leaders, the archbishop of Canterbury, spoke at an event to celebrate Christian Aid, a big charity, and took the opportunity to assault "naive confidence in free trade." (Question: Where, in the realm of actual politics, does one ever see "naive confidence in free trade"?) Market economics, the archbishop went on, "forces choices on vulnerable countries, whose effects may be in the short to medium term very costly indeed to a whole generation of workers, to the environment, to political stability."

On this point, Hollywood, that temple of sybarites, aligns itself with the church, noting sadly the excess and easy virtue of the capitalist model. Has there ever been a movie featuring a large corporation that does not cheat, or poison, or otherwise harm its customers and workers? The other view is better represented, and not just by Michael Moore. The irredeemably wicked corporation is the premise of countless films: Erin Brockovich, The Insider, Super Size Me, the canonical Wall Street, who knows how many? And it is the background scenery in far more. Anti-capitalism is not so much a movie genre as a universal presumption of the entertainment industry -- itself, of course, a capitalist enterprise.

Indeed, the oddest thing is how many top business leaders are joining this chorus of condemnation, sometimes perhaps out of genuine belief and sometimes because it is smart tactics. Recently I researched an article on corporate social responsibility. After a spell of reading companies' annual reports, I set myself the task of finding a major public company that did not say, somewhere in its document, that it honored its broader responsibilities to the community. Surely there must be one such company that says its purpose is to make money for its owners -- and leaves it at that. I'm still looking. If even the bosses are apologizing, entering pleas in mitigation, and asking for forgiveness, then obviously, there must be something to apologize for.

But what, exactly? It is as though the 20th century never happened. Capitalism has delivered hitherto-unimaginable advances in living standards across the developed world. And this is not just measured in dollars and cents. Broader social progress has been made too, again at historically unprecedented rates. Life expectancy, infant mortality, access to health care and education -- regardless of which of these measures you take, capitalism has achieved stunning results.

The 20th century even went to the trouble of testing the alternative -- socialism -- to memorable effect. So it is hardly as if some better economic paradigm is out there waiting to be tried. The one we have has succeeded, in every way, beyond all plausible expectations. Its only rival was a correspondingly egregious failure, ethically and in material terms as well. Given all that, what sustains this steady anti-capitalist sentiment?

Partly, of course, it is that hundreds of millions of people still endure lives, often brief lives, of grinding poverty. Even so, you might think that capitalism would still be recognized -- more than it is, at least -- as the poor's best hope, rather than as the system that holds them back. Poverty is retreating faster than ever before in many developing countries. You can't help but notice that the countries that are opening themselves up to trade and foreign investment -- in effect, to global capitalism -- are advancing the fastest. China is the most conspicuous example. Is capitalism holding China back, keeping its people in poverty? Obviously, just the opposite.

The region whose plight is most desperate is Africa. Here it might seem to make more sense to blame the "global economic system" for keeping the poor in poverty. And in a sense, it is true, because rich-world trade policies do continue to discriminate, scandalously, against exports from Africa. But the plain implication of this is that Africa needs more exposure to trade with the West, not less; more capitalism, not more of some other system, whatever that may be. Increasingly, Africa's own governments are making this point themselves. They want access to Western markets. Where is the chorus of Western demands, in the name of economic justice, for rich-country markets to be thrown open to imports from the world's poor countries? You cannot hear it. It is drowned out by denunciations of sweatshop labor and "naive confidence in free trade."

In the face of the world's recent economic experience, retaining the idea that capitalism is the enemy of social progress, except for those with the power to manipulate the system to their own advantage, calls for an impressive resistance to some large and pretty obvious facts. So the puzzle remains: What is the source of this anti-capitalist sentiment?

My guess is that it is the failure to grasp an idea that was famously advanced more than two centuries ago by Adam Smith, the intellectual patron of this column: the idea of the invisible hand.

This is by no means an instantly appealing concept. After all, that capitalism works as well as it does is, in principle, utterly implausible. How can a fathomlessly complicated system of voluntary exchange, without collective deliberation, with nobody in charge, steered by nobody's good intentions -- a kind of anarchy -- yield social advance, as if by accident? The notion seems ridiculous. That is why Smith's insight was so remarkable. Good intentions are not required for market forces to produce socially good results. Enlightened self-interest suffices. The result will look as though it had been designed -- as though guided by an invisible hand -- but the reality is otherwise.

To acknowledge the power of Smith's insight is not to favor laissez-faire, though this is a very common misunderstanding (on the right as well as on the left). Smith was no advocate of laissez-faire. And to recognize the inadvertent collective power of enlightened self-interest is not to believe that "greed is good," which popular culture appears to have enshrined as the organizing principle of capitalist enterprise.

Smith, a moral philosopher, would have found that completely perplexing. Greed is an irrational passion that blinds people and leads them to ruin. It is almost the opposite of enlightened self-interest -- which, among other things, is a socializing and civilizing influence, since it seeks opportunities for cooperation with others, makes people careful of their reputation for honesty and fair dealing, and so on.

Even if Smith's big idea could be stripped of those false connotations, however, people would still be reluctant to accept that a modern economy could be built without some master blueprint -- or that the results might be socially beneficial even though collective good intentions had played no role in getting there. They would still be suspicious of capitalism. It is a pity, especially for the parts of the world that capitalism is leaving behind.

web page


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4176941 - 05/15/05 03:04 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbdown:

This essay does not answer the question.  Capitalism doesn't get a bad rap for the stupid reasons the obviously biased writer in the essay says it does. 

Capitalism gets a bad rap because:

1.)  The United States is the worlds model for capitalism.

2.)  In the United States, the equal protection amendment designed to protect former slaves from laws to stop them from voting was extended by a corrupt supreme court to include equal protection for 'legal persons' which was a term they used to mean corporations.

3.)  In United states law, a corporation is legally obligated to maximize it's profit.

4.)  As a result of 2 and 3, a corporation is a legal entity with all the rights of legal personhood, but who has none of the moral obligations we associate with personhood, and who is legally obligated to maximize profit.

5.)  These corporations are then legally obligated to do as much damage to the planet as possible to maximize their profits, and are protected by all the rights our constitution affords persons.

6.)  These corporations fulfill their legal obligations without concern for future generations or the health of the planet, or the general population.

7.)  As a result, corporations do a huge amount of damage, create demand for products no one wants, etc, and funnel the profits into the hands of a few wealthy plutocrats who got rich stealing land from native americans and making slaves work on the land.

8.)  As a result of 1 and 7, capitalism gets a bad rap.

The solution:

1.)  Amend the law to make it so corporations have obligations to the public, like concern for the environment and the health of the population, instead of the sole requirement to maximize profit for shareholders.

2.)  Amend the constitution so that 'legal persons' are not afforded rights intended for actual persons.

3.)  Treat inhertience money as taxable income for the recipients.

4.)  Make even the appearance of improper relationships between corporations and politicians punishable by death.

5.)  Work on changing american culture so that people don't want to make money once they have enough of it.

Capitalism isn't bad, it's the way capitalism interacts with the law in certain ways that Adam Smith did not forsee that produces the bum rap.  Corporatism is the system in america now.


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: tomk]
    #4176951 - 05/15/05 03:07 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Ohh, and a bonus point to anyone who expounds upon the way Adam Smith's concept of an invisible hand is completely made irrelevant by the way advertising + psychology can completely guide demand.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: tomk]
    #4176952 - 05/15/05 03:08 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Capitalism isn't bad, it's the way capitalism interacts with the law in certain ways that Adam Smith did not forsee that produces the bum rap. Corporatism is the system in america now.



:thumbup:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: tomk]
    #4176960 - 05/15/05 03:11 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
Ohh, and a bonus point to anyone who expounds upon the way Adam Smith's concept of an invisible hand is completely made irrelevant by the way advertising + psychology can completely guide demand.



That doesn't make it irrelevant. Advertising isn't all-powerful. It can certainly influence demand, but it can't create demand all by itself. Ever notice an increase in SUV ads coinciding with a decline in sales? That's cuz they're desparate. But even the ignorant masses need to live on a budget, and are realizing that they can't afford to have a gas-guzzler around.


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4176989 - 05/15/05 03:24 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Advertising isn't all-powerful. It can certainly influence demand, but it can't create demand all by itself.




Advertising can't create demand all by itself? I present to you the pet rock. The Pokemon. American Idol. Pepsi-Cola. Budweiser.

Advertising is all powerful. It can create demand all by itself. It cannot create demand for anything all by itself, but for certain things, it sure as hell can.

Ever heard of deoderant? Probably not, you hippy, but, anyhow, it used to be the case that no one heard of it or used it, and no one noticed everyone stank because everyone stank. Then they marketed deoderant, creating demand for it all from the advertising. Now everyone uses it except hippies.

Advertising is way more subversive then just what car you buy, man. It's also the entire culture that makes you want a car in the first place.

Adam Smith's concept that economic interests would work to benefit the public depended on the public demanding stuff they needed. Now that industry can play with demand, the invisible hand is no longer at work. Advertising doesn't need to be 100 percent effective to eliminate the invisible hand, it just needs to shape demand in a way that is not conducive to the public good.

Don't be naive. It's all around you.


--------------------
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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: tomk]
    #4177020 - 05/15/05 03:34 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Advertising isn't all-powerful. It can certainly influence demand, but it can't create demand all by itself.




Advertising can't create demand all by itself? I present to you the pet rock. The Pokemon. American Idol. Pepsi-Cola. Budweiser.



Pet rock = novelty
Pokemon = entertainment
American Idol = entertainment
Pepsi-Cola = thirst-quencher
Budweiser = cheap intoxication

All these things serve a want that consumers have. Advertising does not create that want. It merely convinces people that a specific product will fulfill that want.

Quote:

Advertising is all powerful.



Bullshit

Quote:

It can create demand all by itself. It cannot create demand for anything all by itself, but for certain things, it sure as hell can.



Then why is General Motors losing all this money from dropping SUV sales, despite their increased advertising? I'll tell you why: SUV's are no longer able to meet the wants that they once could.

Quote:

Ever heard of deoderant? Probably not, you hippy, but, anyhow, it used to be the case that no one heard of it or used it, and no one noticed everyone stank because everyone stank. Then they marketed deoderant, creating demand for it all from the advertising. Now everyone uses it except hippies.



It used to be that people didn't bathe either. This changed long before mass marketing came about.

Quote:

Advertising is way more subversive then just what car you buy, man. It's also the entire culture that makes you want a car in the first place.



I believe that "culture" you're referring to is simply a society organized in such a way that it requires transportation.

Quote:

Adam Smith's concept that economic interests would work to benefit the public depended on the public demanding stuff they needed.



The market satisfies wants as well as needs. Adam Smith understood this, as does anyone with even a basic understanding of economics.

Quote:

Now that industry can play with demand, the invisible hand is no longer at work. Advertising doesn't need to be 100 percent effective to eliminate the invisible hand, it just needs to shape demand in a way that is not conducive to the public good.

Don't be naive. It's all around you.



Of course it is. They're trying to influence demand, but demand is not as controlled as you think it is. Why is Linux becoming so popular, despite so little advertising? Simple word-of-mouth can topple some of the most heavily advertised products out there if there's enough demand for something better.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4177316 - 05/15/05 08:29 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pokemon = entertainment



So you mean to say the animation series wasn't created in such a way that it acts as free advertising (heck, tv stations even have to pay to acquire the tapes!) for its products (trading cards, video games, etc)? Think about it, Pokemon has no real storyline, other than the discovery of new products (Pokemon).

Children and adolescents can easily be influenced. That's why things like Idol and Pokemon are that popular. Parents think they have to grant their child every wish, and children feel they should get everything they see on tv. I know, because I've been a kid.

Quote:

Pepsi-Cola = thirst-quencher



Then why are the commercials always about a certain lifestyle, instead of how great it is to quench one's thirst? Water is equally, if not better, fit for quenching thirst. Lime or cactus juice is even better.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Edited by Alan Stone (05/15/05 08:31 AM)


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OfflineDoom
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4177828 - 05/15/05 12:46 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

o you mean to say the animation series wasn't created in such a way that it acts as free advertising (heck, tv stations even have to pay to acquire the tapes!) for its products (trading cards, video games, etc)? Think about it, Pokemon has no real storyline, other than the discovery of new products (Pokemon).

yes, thats called *merchandising* ever own a star wars action figure? I did and they were totally rad.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4177924 - 05/15/05 01:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

So you mean to say the animation series wasn't created in such a way that it acts as free advertising (heck, tv stations even have to pay to acquire the tapes!) for its products (trading cards, video games, etc)? Think about it, Pokemon has no real storyline, other than the discovery of new products (Pokemon).



So what? The Pokemon products also act as entertainment.

Quote:

Then why are the commercials always about a certain lifestyle, instead of how great it is to quench one's thirst? Water is equally, if not better, fit for quenching thirst. Lime or cactus juice is even better.



The difference: Pepsi tastes better


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OfflineDoom
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4177979 - 05/15/05 01:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Then why are the commercials always about a certain lifestyle, instead of how great it is to quench one's thirst? Water is equally, if not better, fit for quenching thirst. Lime or cactus juice is even better.

you might want to compare the pepsi*s caffiene and sugar content to that of lime juice, therein lies your answer.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4178222 - 05/15/05 02:23 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

You guys are totally over-analyzing it.

It is simply because the lower income classes think they should have an equal slice of the pie. People see others like business men and even laborers who make good money and they think "why shouldn't I be entitled to that?".

This is why the founders of the US originally made it so only property owners could vote. They said that democracy would die as soon as people figured out how to vote themselves money.

Maybe the anti-capitalists are right and we could have utopia if everyone was forced to share everything, but it is unlikely.

The real, undeniable theme of all this is that money truly is the root of evil. I don't care where you live in the world and what kind of economy you have, there is always someone willing to kill his brother for a couple bucks. No economic system will ever be able to alleviate that kind of obsession over materialistic things.


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Offlinesnoopaloop53
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: tomk]
    #4178282 - 05/15/05 02:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
:thumbdown:

This essay does not answer the question.  Capitalism doesn't get a bad rap for the stupid reasons the obviously biased writer in the essay says it does. 

Capitalism gets a bad rap because:

1.)  The United States is the worlds model for capitalism.

2.)  In the United States, the equal protection amendment designed to protect former slaves from laws to stop them from voting was extended by a corrupt supreme court to include equal protection for 'legal persons' which was a term they used to mean corporations.

3.)  In United states law, a corporation is legally obligated to maximize it's profit.

4.)  As a result of 2 and 3, a corporation is a legal entity with all the rights of legal personhood, but who has none of the moral obligations we associate with personhood, and who is legally obligated to maximize profit.

5.)  These corporations are then legally obligated to do as much damage to the planet as possible to maximize their profits, and are protected by all the rights our constitution affords persons.

6.)  These corporations fulfill their legal obligations without concern for future generations or the health of the planet, or the general population.

7.)  As a result, corporations do a huge amount of damage, create demand for products no one wants, etc, and funnel the profits into the hands of a few wealthy plutocrats who got rich stealing land from native americans and making slaves work on the land.

8.)  As a result of 1 and 7, capitalism gets a bad rap.

The solution:

1.)  Amend the law to make it so corporations have obligations to the public, like concern for the environment and the health of the population, instead of the sole requirement to maximize profit for shareholders.

2.)  Amend the constitution so that 'legal persons' are not afforded rights intended for actual persons.

3.)  Treat inhertience money as taxable income for the recipients.

4.)  Make even the appearance of improper relationships between corporations and politicians punishable by death.

5.)  Work on changing american culture so that people don't want to make money once they have enough of it.

Capitalism isn't bad, it's the way capitalism interacts with the law in certain ways that Adam Smith did not forsee that produces the bum rap.  Corporatism is the system in america now.




1)Why do corporations have a responsiblity to the public?  They were created to make money.  If the trash the environment then people don't have to buy their products.  Maximizing profits is the exact reason they exist.

2)Why shouldn't a group of investors that come together have SOME of the same rights as individuals and not be penalized for making more money than someone else?

3)So since I've worked hard my whole life my children/ next of kin should have to pay taxes on the money I've already paid taxes on just because you want everyone to be "equal".

4)Ok you're insane.

5)Oh, you're canadian, explains #4.  Maybe one day everyone who matters won't think of Canada as little USA, then again maybe one day pigs will fly!


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Offlinesnoopaloop53
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4178286 - 05/15/05 02:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

tomk said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Advertising isn't all-powerful. It can certainly influence demand, but it can't create demand all by itself.




Advertising can't create demand all by itself? I present to you the pet rock. The Pokemon. American Idol. Pepsi-Cola. Budweiser.



Pet rock = novelty
Pokemon = entertainment
American Idol = entertainment
Pepsi-Cola = thirst-quencher
Budweiser = cheap intoxication

Fuck Budweiser, drink Miller Lite and prevent taste loss!


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4178297 - 05/15/05 02:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

first of all..i should point out that tomks' assessment is of course correct...i should also add that unlike adam smith..capitalism posits a labour market where workers can only sell their labour..which capitalists can bid down more or less arbitrarily...adam smith..OTOH..implied that the workers would own the means of production...

second of all..even so..i think that alot of what gets blamed on capitalism is really the fault of the fiat currency system..whose value is based on exploition and sometimes war...it is no accident that the beginning of the rise of fascism in the US coincided with that of the fiat currency system in the early 1970s...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #4178304 - 05/15/05 02:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Personally, I don't drink either of them. I don't need to get drunk that bad. If I want beer, I go for the good stuff.



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Offlinesnoopaloop53
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4178324 - 05/15/05 02:46 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Are you saying Miller Lite is not good?

INFIDEL!!!

sorry to the rest of y'all we'll try to stick to the topic from here on out.


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4178329 - 05/15/05 02:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said: Think about it, Pokemon has no real storyline, other than the discovery of new products (Pokemon).


Hey I like Pokemon!
Quote:

Alan Stone said:Parents think they have to grant their child every wish, and children feel they should get everything they see on tv. I know, because I've been a kid


Maybe your parents did, but not all parents spoil there children with anything they want. Many parents (including mine) make the kids work, and cant afford/dont want to buy them tons of shit. I know, because I've been a kid


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4178331 - 05/15/05 02:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
first of all..i should point out that tomks' assessment is of course correct...i should also add that unlike adam smith..capitalism posits a labour market where workers can only sell their labour..which capitalists can bid down more or less arbitrarily...adam smith..OTOH..implied that the workers would own the means of production...



First of all, laborers don't have to sell their labor. There's nothing preventing them from forming worker collectives and producing goods themselves. It just happens to be more convenient for them to sell their labor. Second, capitalists cannot arbitrarily bid down the wages of the workers. Both sides are bound by supply and demand. Third, could you please quote where Adam Smith said anything about workers owning the means of production? To save you the trouble of searching, here's The Wealth of Nations in its entirety: link

Quote:

second of all..even so..i think that alot of what gets blamed on capitalism is really the fault of the fiat currency system..whose value is based on exploition and sometimes war...it is no accident that the beginning of the rise of fascism in the US coincided with that of the fiat currency system in the early 1970s...



Uh...the Federal Reserve began in 1913. While it's true that it wasn't until the 70's that we moved completely away from the gold standard, I think you can trace fiat currency in the US back to the beginning of the Federal Reserve. But I do agree that fiat currency is shit.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Why Does Capitalism Get Such A Bum Rap? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4178385 - 05/15/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Second, capitalists cannot arbitrarily bid down the wages of the workers. Both sides are bound by supply and demand.




not in a totally arbitrary fashion..but they still have much power to do so through their influence on govt...it is such a common practice that it even has a name .."structural market failure"...

Quote:

Third, could you please quote where Adam Smith said anything about workers owning the means of production?




he doesnt ..

Quote:

adam smith..OTOH..implied that the workers would own the means of production...




thats why it says "implied"...

Quote:

Uh...the Federal Reserve began in 1913. While it's true that it wasn't until the 70's that we moved completely away from the gold standard, I think you can trace fiat currency in the US back to the beginning of the Federal Reserve. But I do agree that fiat currency is shit.




the federal reserve at first only added another layer of bureaucracy...fascism was not absolutely necessary as long as the dollar was officially backed by gold...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (05/15/05 03:09 PM)


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