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Offlineytse
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Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue)
    #4169757 - 05/13/05 06:50 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)




This is a photo of a plant 2 weeks old shoot some weeks ago. Now it has grown ever more and it seems to be growing at a good rate

It was somehow tricky to grow it and attention should be paid to some factors.

-Even from the beginning it responds good to some direct sunlight. When young its better to position it so that it gets some direct sun early in the morning or late at the afternoon and progressively move it to a sunnier position

-It doesn?t like soil and ambient humidity even as seeding. Ambient humidity should be kept very low (never spray). The soil should be able to dry quickly and it should be watered only when dry (EVEN AS A SEEDING). A nice idea for boosting the drainage is using a clay pot since the plant is quite salt resistant.

-At the time and place I?m talking about the day temperature was 20 ? 26 Celsius and at the night never was less than 17. So it?s quite important to choose the right time to get seeds on the ground. Maybe late spring is better. ( I have the impression that higher temperatures are even better)

-The only thing I didn?t like was the germination rate (10%). I tried various methods, the following failed almost completely : Soaking in water, dry toilet paper , cactus seeding method ( moist ground and air) etc.
The only method that worked (10%) was leaving the seeds on the ground and spraying them every second day until the surface is moist.
Although the sprouting rate was low , all the seeds that sprouted survived and have grown.

I should mention that for the first time it is quite difficult to feel the needs of the young plant because it is not like most of the other plants from seeds. So it might be better to apply different conditions ( mainly soil humidity/ watering frequency) to a number of pots at the same time to find out what are the best conditions.


--------------------
For unrestricted use, the West has permitted alcohol and tobacco;
all other chemical Doors in the Wall are labeled Dope,
and their unauthorized takers are Fiends.

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)


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Edited by ytse (05/13/05 06:52 AM)


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: ytse]
    #4169831 - 05/13/05 08:26 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Wow! Welcome here Ytse and thanks for the quality info you post (Ytse is a long standing member of my forums and his info standard is preety high!)

Im archiving this method if you dont mind! By the way in Greek market i found a product called maxicrop that can help to germinate seeds! Just look at the phytohormones it contains,perfect to break dormancy.Have a look here on its description http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4167592/an/0/page/0 .

From a biology point of view,what we see with harmala may be a trade-off.SOme plants set very few,very fertile seeds.Others shed literally shitloads of seed but the fertility is low!

Are those seedling yours?

By the way i would really appreciate it if when my community goes operational again to have you as a member!


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Offlineytse
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Psiloman]
    #4169868 - 05/13/05 08:51 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the introduction Psiloman!
I?m looking forward...

As for the plant now! I found it quite hard to sprout the seeds. And once the seeds are sprouted it is very critical to keep them in the right environment in order to survive! I failed some times at the past
The tricky thing is that the environmental conditions they like differ a lot from most of the other young plants!

I haven?t come across the product you mentioned! It sounds interesting I will have an eye open!

Yes, the seedlings are mine!
By the way, another friend had also success growing the rue in the same location. So probably the time and the place are right!


--------------------
For unrestricted use, the West has permitted alcohol and tobacco;
all other chemical Doors in the Wall are labeled Dope,
and their unauthorized takers are Fiends.

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)


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Edited by ytse (05/13/05 09:18 AM)


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OfflineChemical_Bliss
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: ytse]
    #4170419 - 05/13/05 12:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Do you have much experience growing Rue? It seems everytime I get them to 7 inches or so they just die for no apparent reason.


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Offlineytse
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Chemical_Bliss]
    #4170846 - 05/13/05 02:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Actually it?s my first attempt nevertheless they seem to be doing good.
I?m not at 7in yet. ( 7in = 20 cm right? )

What you say makes me worry?

Is it connected to a change of Period ?
What symptoms did they have before dieing? Were they completely healthy?
How big was their pot?

Wish you greener thumb next time?


--------------------
For unrestricted use, the West has permitted alcohol and tobacco;
all other chemical Doors in the Wall are labeled Dope,
and their unauthorized takers are Fiends.

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: ytse]
    #4171254 - 05/13/05 04:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Hmmm i might give it a go....I might even try spraying it with maxicrop,its phytohormones+Betaines (these are to resist shock) maybe could keep it to life!

By the way is the planting location in Greece? Or elsewhere?


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Offlineytse
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Psiloman]
    #4173544 - 05/14/05 04:54 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

For the time being it doesn?t seem to need any help but I have maxicrop in mind!
It might proof useful in some other ?plants? I have in mind!

Yes, it?s in Greece.


--------------------
For unrestricted use, the West has permitted alcohol and tobacco;
all other chemical Doors in the Wall are labeled Dope,
and their unauthorized takers are Fiends.

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)


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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: ytse]
    #4173817 - 05/14/05 09:30 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I know that Esphand can be really difficult to grow especially if the seeds purchased came from the origin that most of the bulk seeds come, which are sold as a spice but for their other obvious reasons on the ethnobotanical market. These seeds generally have a very low viability rate. Neuro had success sowing in pots and leaving them where to stand. He wrote up a nice post about it that im sure a search will reveal. Thanks for sharing and welcome to the community!


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Offlineytse
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Aneglakya]
    #4185890 - 05/17/05 11:57 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Aneglakya thanks a lot for the welcoming!

Quote:

>>I know that Esphand?




I like that you called it Espand!
Espand or Aspand is the name used in Kurdistan and Eastern Turkey.
I think that it?s also called Uzarin in Turkey. One Turk I had met told that people in the East side of Mediterranean See use to smoke it in hookahs combined with tobacco!

Quote:

>>Neuro had success sowing in pots and leaving them where to stand. He wrote up a nice post about it that im sure a search will reveal.




Before planting the seeds I spend some time in the Internet , in books and asking people for the cultivation of this plant.
I came across Neuros post Neuros post and it was quite informative. I also found another interesting post here in shroomery.
And one post with pics



I want to keep notes of my experience growing this plant and then write a Tek after growing it successfully for a wait!
I have managed to collect some information and it seems that I live at the correct environment.
If I fail to grow it ?
? maybe I help someone to avoid my mistakes!


Edited by ytse (05/17/05 11:59 AM)


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Offlineytse
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: ytse]
    #4202585 - 05/21/05 07:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)



A macro shot worth seeing Full size. That?s about 2 weeks latter that the former shoot.
They are growing good and they seem happy!


Something more: (REALLY NICE)

While trying to germinate some harmala seeds I tried various methods. (Wet paper, soaking in water and so on) Most of them resulted in failure. Some kind of white mold was formatting on the seeds. Instead of throwing away the seeds I threw them in a big pot that I water sparingly and it gets lotsa sun.
This was done more than a month ago and I had completely forgotten it.
Some minutes ago I saw amazed that in this pot are growing some harmala plants!!!! It?s almost at the size of the first pic. GREAT!


I should note that temperatures have gone up lately!

Suggestions:
Full sunshine
Almost dry soil!
High temperatures (at least 20)


--------------------
For unrestricted use, the West has permitted alcohol and tobacco;
all other chemical Doors in the Wall are labeled Dope,
and their unauthorized takers are Fiends.

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)


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Offlineytse
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: ytse]
    #4235805 - 05/30/05 06:28 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The plant is in a small clay pot (D10 , H10 )
While looking at the bottom of the pot I noticed some roots coming out of the drainage holes!
Time to transplant!

I hope that transplanting won?t create any problems!
The fact that bigger pot holds more water is an other point.
Clay pot and gravel at the bottom will be used in order to have better drainage!

During this week I?m going to add some more pics!

By the way, a question for the guys that have tried to cultivate this plant.
How big did you manage to grow it before it died?
Which period did it die?


--------------------
For unrestricted use, the West has permitted alcohol and tobacco;
all other chemical Doors in the Wall are labeled Dope,
and their unauthorized takers are Fiends.

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: ytse]
    #4239146 - 05/31/05 09:23 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thats the most succesful atempt so far i have seenkeep up the nice work!

I wonder about the "sudden deaths" of peganum harmala...Maybe it forms symbiotic relationships with other species that ensure its survival? Im thinking of starting some Harmala plants as well and trying dirrerent methods in growing them...

Oh and by the way...BUMP! Im not letting this thread die,i love it! For us mediterranean folks Peganum harmala is a viable option. A tidbit of info,not hijacking your thread : From what i hear banisteriopsis Caapi can grow as easily as a noxious weed and its leaves contain more alkaloids than the bark! Also it contains the somewhat legendary THH (tetrahydroharmaline) that was shown to increase serotonine carriers in blood pellets and propably brain.


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Offlineytse
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Psiloman]
    #4243036 - 06/01/05 04:55 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the comments Psilo!

I had experienced ?Sudden deaths? only when the conditions were not right.
So I assume that plants can tolerate the bad condition up to a point and after that they give up!

By the way, the plants were transplanted. I am afraid that I wasn?t very polite with their roots (it would be better to brake the pot than taking soil and roots out of the pot ).Never the less they seem happy now.
The new pot is from clay as well. (D25 H20). I added some more seeds !

>trying dirrerent methods in growing them...

That?s the best you can do. Some of them will die , revealing the points you should avoid! Try it!

It requires wet ? tropical climate. Maybe its not so easy!
Btw I think I know someone who is trying to grow it in Greece. If I have any news I will let you know!


One pic before transplanting:



--------------------
For unrestricted use, the West has permitted alcohol and tobacco;
all other chemical Doors in the Wall are labeled Dope,
and their unauthorized takers are Fiends.

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: ytse]
    #4243251 - 06/01/05 08:56 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"Btw I think I know someone who is trying to grow it in Greece. If I have any news I will let you know!"

Very good! You know my mentality on "coagulation" of "minorities" like us who are itnerested in growing those plants...."Coagulate or else you will perish",and thas usually because if you have connections you can save rare botanicals,accumulate knowledge ,even form a local "coalition" of defenders of those plants...Being isolated is pushes the balance towards failure.

By the way,do you think that this person would be interested to join our...erm... "Greek Coalition" ? Wink Wink!


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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Psiloman]
    #4243275 - 06/01/05 09:27 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Ytse, they are looking very nice!

And psilo I too have heard that the leaves of B. Caapi cotain more alkaloids than the vine, I hear its not used because it makes the brew taste bad....imagine that.

Good luck with the transplant!


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'be here now... i love everybody'


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Chemical_Bliss]
    #4243297 - 06/01/05 09:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chemical_Bliss said:
Ytse, they are looking very nice!

And psilo I too have heard that the leaves of B. Caapi cotain more alkaloids than the vine, I hear its not used because it makes the brew taste bad....imagine that.

Good luck with the transplant!




Well ,one could Manske the leaf aqueous phase and receive nice crystals! On the other hand i never completely understood those who complain about the taste,unless it physical intereferes with you,like lots of tannins that make your throat feel like paper or caustic phenols that will make you blister. When i started investigating entheogens i started it keeping in mind that they never won (or will win) any culinary/gastronomic contests! In the case of a simply bad taste i wonder this : How cant those people handle five minutes (usually even less) with closed nose to ingest the liguid and they expect to handle an experience spanning 4-6 hours?

Anyway,Manske isolation all the way :laugh:


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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Psiloman]
    #4243388 - 06/01/05 10:36 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psiloman said:

How cant those people handle five minutes (usually even less) with closed nose to ingest the liguid and they expect to handle an experience spanning 4-6 hours?





I completely agree.

Even then I find that one gets used to realy bady tastes after sampling so many....I bet I would kick ass on fear factor :smile:.


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OfflineTinkal
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Chemical_Bliss]
    #4243646 - 06/01/05 12:09 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I will try again in growing P. harmala next week. The rain destroyed all the seedling so I will have to start again.
Last time I did this : I throwed a handful of seeds in dry soil and just waited. I always had the soil dry (1/3 was river sand). 6 harmala seedlings appeared. Unfortunately they died after heavy rain.
It's not difficult. They just need sun and not to much water.
P. harmala is a dessert bush after all!


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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: Tinkal]
    #4247205 - 06/02/05 09:42 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks bliss

Psilo:
I think that he is looking forward to!
But he used to be a member of ?pateras? as well. ( Talking about hoja)
Anyway I have a few interesting locals in mind for the ?colligation?

Tinkal:
Welcome,
I don?t know yet if it?s difficult or not.
A lot of people experience problems after the seeding have poped up.


--------------------
For unrestricted use, the West has permitted alcohol and tobacco;
all other chemical Doors in the Wall are labeled Dope,
and their unauthorized takers are Fiends.

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)


κατσίκα


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Notes on Growing Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) [Re: ytse]
    #4247224 - 06/02/05 09:55 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Ah ,Hoja! He is always welcome,such as Tinkal so when i manage to develop the website you will be moderators in the coalition.I trust your choices so the locals you propose are more than welcome! Stand by for the coalition since im goign through hard times juggling between academic priorities and the coalition priorities.

I am going to further study your method and then i will plant my harmala.If you have any tips they are mroe than welcome since i want to start my go at it in full awareness. Do you think it could be reintroduced in the wild in our climate? I keep hearing Esphand grows in Greece but all my searches (even utilising help of botanic speciment collectors) have been ,quite literally, fruitless.

I would be good also if you could prepare an "outdoor" bed of harmala sprouts in the wild,propably in a place where conditions are semiarid...Summer can give you a helping hand!


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Amazon Shop for: Banisteriopsis Caapi, Hookah, Syrian Rue

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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