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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Serous Question Re Spanking 
#4164572 - 05/11/05 11:27 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have a serious question for S&P participants who were NOT spanked as a child and who have kids of their own:
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: Diploid]
#4164582 - 05/11/05 11:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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There's only about 4 people eligible to take this quiz in S&P. 
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: Diploid]
#4164617 - 05/11/05 11:33 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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How bout it.  Like 5 of us are parents and I think all of us have said we were "spanked" in the least. Does ANYONE qualify.
From all the parents I talk with, those who were not spanked do not spank. They have a model for it.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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From all the parents I talk with, those who were not spanked do not spank. They have a model for it.
Yeah, small sample asside, this is what I was trying to get at.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: Diploid]
#4164737 - 05/11/05 11:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I know you were. being a parent, I chat with many other parents about these issues and that is what I have learned. Of those who were "spanked" maybe 25% have broken the chain.
It's something I like to find out fast when I meet new people with kids who may become potential friends and playmates for my daughter. She can't handle being around that stuff. To see another kid just getting yelled at or shamed by their parents is so upsetting to her she doesn't ever want to go to their house again.
Maybe you can ask of those here who were not spanked as children , of them, who would or wouldn't when or if they have their own. Lets hear from those souls on it. When I meet people who weren't themselves, they usually are abhorred by the idea. They are also often the more gentile kids who were picked on by bullies at school too so they are double abhored by it.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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 Muppet 
Nomadic Jester
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 28,785
Loc: (523) 327-2836
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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I was babied like a god damn infant til way into my teenage years (when my mother finally left my life...not to imply she ever finally grew the fuck up, or anything) and I was indeed the proverbial 'gentle kid' that got picked on by bullies at school...and yes - I did blame my parents for it
it was my continuous whining and complaining about not being able to constantly get my way that caused these bullies to bitch-slap me and put me in my mother fucken place in the first place...and to be perfectly honest with you - that was exactly what I needed
you can't kiss a child's ass non-stop and expect em to grow up without any flaws
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 Ravings of a Madman
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: Muppet]
#4164818 - 05/12/05 12:13 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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~The real world.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: Muppet]
#4164848 - 05/12/05 12:22 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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What you are talking about is neglect there Muppet. Many parents let their children have their way because they don't know how to raise a self disciplined child who has respect for boundaries and rules without spanking.
No one here who has advocating a non spanking alternative advocates neglecting discipline and the setting of boundaries for acceptable behavior. That is child neglect in all of our books.
Your mom didn't need to bitch slap you. She needed to let you know that you can't always have your way and consistently enforce it through the establishment of building a relationship of mutual trust and respect with you and letting you know that if you push it, there will be a consequence and it will be followed through with.
She didn't do that did she? She let you push her till she caved. The kids at school didn't let you push them. They pushed back and you got hurt. Neglect is just as abusive as physical violence.
It sucks to hear you think you needed or deserved to be hit. You didn't. Sounds like you did need to have acceptable boundaries established and to have been taught respect for others regarding pushing them to far to get your way.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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What you are talking about is neglect there Muppet.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
~The real world.
My home life is real. I exist, my daughter exists and my home exists. Next time you are in the Tampa area PM me and come visit. You can see another reality that you haven't conceived of or believe in for yourself. Its just as real to raise a respectful self disciplined child without spanking.
What is uncommon is those willing to dedicate the time energy and patience to it.
For anyone here who thinks you should've been hit or deserved to be, research child neglect. Research alternatives and the studies. A plethora of information is available today. There is no longer an excuse for ignorance here.
If I had to choose between neglect or a heavy hand I would probably go with the heavy hand. There is a third choice thankfully. 
Lets chill on this. It's the year 2005 and I think we have learned a bit about the ils of violence and physical force as well as neglect. If peaceful and mutually beneficial and constructive solutions can be utilised they are the obvious first choice.
Then again, some people just love violence and are deaf to any other talk.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Muppet
Nomadic Jester
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 28,785
Loc: (523) 327-2836
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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it wasn't so much that I needed violence - I did certainly need some sort of boundaries to be put into effect though
granted, I'm sure that my old lady probably could've found a better way to do that then simply resorting to raising a hand to me...but even that would have been better then letting me get away with any god damn thing I pleased
but even that's not really important considering it is just one example (and not a particularly good one either)
in general - I don't feel that teaching children boundaries should 'require' any sort of physical implications (wheather it be spanking, or whatever) but I also don't think that parents should avoid these types of situation like the fucken plague (as seems to be the case with you)
believe it or not - there are indeed times when a child gets a major freakin hair up his ass about god knows what, and no amount of happy thoughts is gonna get em to snap out of that fucked up little vortex they've managed to get themselves all wrapped up in for the upteenth freakin time
sometimes kids really do need a good solid 'jolt' to keep em from skipping (if ya know what I mean)
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Ravings of a Madman
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: Muppet]
#4165011 - 05/12/05 01:15 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Avoiding is neglect. My daughter is human and prone to a cranky days just like adults are. She is allowed to have them just like I am and my husband is and people here are. I do have to deal with them in her and I do by helping her to realize she is on a down swing and how to manage it best. I may suggest she take a nap, eat some protein, take a break from what she is doing, sit and breath go burn off energy on a physical activity. That is what I am talking about here.........dealing with your children and teaching them how to self manage, not neglecting and ignoring them and not spanking them. Avoiding being a parent is not parenting.
When is it going to connect with you that no one who advocates a known alternative to spanking does NOT advocate any form of neglect, avoiding or ignoring children.
What they advocate is actually spending more interactive time with your children.
Parents who avoid dealing with whiny tempery kids end up with whiny tempery kids. Avoidance and ignorance are not alternative solutions. They are just as abusive as spanking and as I said, I think they are worse. At least when you get spanked, you are getting attention.
Why is it so difficult for parents to give their kids lots of positive constructive interactive attention. They thrive on that stuff. With healthy doses of it, they never need to act out to get negative attention from you.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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"Why is it so difficult for parents to give their kids lots of positive constructive interactive attention."
A lot of the times, the parents have trouble doing that for themselves.
I was talking with a friend of mine who has two well behaved children. I asked how he does it, he replied "discipline! Give them a swift whoopin every now and then and then explain to them why" it's not like the man isn't any less loving or affectionate to his kids, cause I know, his children are his life. so I think a spanking every now and then is good. As my friend said "what if you need your child to listen to you right then and there. for instance, if you child runs off into the street you can holler "no" and they're more likely to listen."
I know I don't have children so I can't really say. I can only look back on how I was brought up and go from there. I know really well of excessive "discipline" from having such a lunatic mom, but I still find some merit in spankings, as long as the child understands why.
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: kaiowas]
#4165236 - 05/12/05 02:51 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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And all I have to do is ask my daughter not to go into the street and she WILL listen to me.............without the spankings ever being required.
What a novel idea. To have your children be able to listen to you simply because they have learned to respect and trust your judgment is a beautiful thing.
If there is a choice to have that versus having to make threats of spankings and to have your children challenge your word and take the chance of the running in the street anyway and having to actually be the one to hit them instead of a car, why would you choose the later over just being listened to the first time?
I can only think of two reasons. The first is laziness to establish such trust and respect and the second is that one likes creating situations to power trip on people smaller then themselves because they have "controlling others issues" because they lack self control.
There is a plethora of information out there for raising respectful self disciplined children without spanking. To advocate spanking is being in ignorance of the knowledge. WHY ignore it if a better way is available to be utilized?
We are talking about little defenseless children here. We are bigger then them and we know more. Should we use our size over them or our knowledge over them to our parenting advantage? Are we Barbarians or civilized?
It's discussions like these where I have to remind myself what planet I am on. Yes, Earth, at a time where the human species is yet primitive in their spiritual evolution and still working through fear, ignorance of available knowledge of a better way, mental, emotional and physical dis-ease, control, responsible use of power and violence.
Now I remember where I am at!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ever consider using love for the self and others as a motivator instead of fear? It's a gem in the rough.
No one can make any of you not spank your kids if you ever have them, cept for law enforcement if they catch you in the act. All I can do is appeal to you to consider and research alternatives and let you know they are out there, which work even better and bring bonus results to boot.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Nomad
Mad Robot
Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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It's discussions like these where I have to remind myself what planet I am on. Yes, Earth, at a time where the human species is yet primitive in their spiritual evolution and still working through fear, ignorance of available knowledge of a better way, mental, emotional and physical dis-ease, control, responsible use of power and violence.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: Diploid]
#4165250 - 05/12/05 03:05 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's far better for kids to obay you because they love and respect you and would never want to dissapoint you than it is to have them obay you because they fear being hit?
I'll never understand why is this so hard for some people to see?
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (05/12/05 04:42 AM)
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emptywisdom
simple being oflight
Registered: 03/29/05
Posts: 2,107
Loc: Lemuria
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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 Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: Diploid]
#4165259 - 05/12/05 03:17 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have no kids yet.
I was spanked as a child
Hitting your kids physically, whether it be on the face or on the ass, is never the right answer.
Spanking a kid is weak and a show of the fact the you are frustrated and can't figure out what else to do.
Spanking will only cause more problems. Every time. Guaranteed.
Please kids, don't hit your children. Just because it's theirs ass does not make it different, or right. Hitting your kid, anywhere on their body, is fucked up. And personally, I can't see how someone who loves their child could hit it, I don't give a fuck what they did or how loud they are, don't lay a hand in violence on your child. It's the wrong answer. Period.
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egghead1
Nakedly Open
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: Diploid]
#4165289 - 05/12/05 04:12 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
It's far better for a kids to obay you because they love and respect you and would never want to dissapoint you than it is to have them obay you because they fear being hit?
I'll never understand why is this so hard for some people to see?
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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,867
Last seen: 5 months, 28 days
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: egghead1]
#4165313 - 05/12/05 04:43 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I got spanked maybe once or twice when I was a kid.
Not hard, not a 'spanking', just a smack or two on the butt. 'cause I did something way not right.. the only occasion I recall, I nabbed my dad's zippo and was playin with it under the table 
Didn't hurt, it was more the fact that I KNEW that I had done something to seriously upset my parents that hurt.
Not something to be used as an end-all solution, but not, in my opinion, something that's to be avoided at all costs. The problem arises, I think, when it is offered as the ONLY solution to problems, or applied too liberally.
All told, avoiding problems and caving to the demands of a child time after time are by far the worst thing you can do. Learning to not make demands and to understand that you won't get everything you want all the time is a very important lesson that unfortunately I see more and more people simply not teaching their kids.. and what it all comes down to is respect for others, which itself is horribly lacking in society.
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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.
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emptywisdom
simple being oflight
Registered: 03/29/05
Posts: 2,107
Loc: Lemuria
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Serous Question Re Spanking [Re: egghead1]
#4165315 - 05/12/05 04:45 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
egghead1 said:
Quote:
Diploid said:
It's far better for a kids to obay you because they love and respect you and would never want to dissapoint you than it is to have them obay you because they fear being hit?
I'll never understand why is this so hard for some people to see?
Sorry to quote a quoted quote, but
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