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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
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Man/Boy Love
    #4162404 - 05/11/05 05:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Watching CNN today I followed what developed from the Michael Jackson trial, where Macaulay Culkin ardently testified that nothing happened between him and Michael Jackson in the early 90's when Culkin was a boy. The current trial surrounding Michael Jackson seems ever-so similiar to that of the legal wranglings that Oscar Wilde faced near the end of his career as a popular entertainer. With Michael Jackson in the spot light, perhaps the public should have a dispassionate approach to the allegation itself. Put love on trial. Does Michael Jackson love the boy? Does the boy love Michael Jackson? Instead of having everyone think with their blood, put the current hysteria over intergenerational sex on the stage. Bring in the intellectual world, the gay community, the pro-sex feminists and anti-sex feminists, and the NAMBLA folks. Discuss the phenomena, as nothing should be beyond honest discussion.

Society seems to go through an endless series of moral panics and mass hysterias. The current attitudes towards male pedophilia and pederasty fit a trend in sexual politics in regard to how society historically responded to feminist and homosexual movements. Men today in the West face witch hunts for something that was considered perfectly natural and even obligatory in some cultures.

While feminist and gay movements have entered the political spectrum in their discourse, attitudes towards pederast emancipation have become grossly absolutist, to the point where one has to look back to the days of Roman Inquisition to find a comparison.

I was a loved boy myself, and personally I deplore the witch hunts that men and boys in consensual relationships are subjected to in this day of age where dissidents of preconceptions automatically become sexual heretics.


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Edited by zahudulallah (05/11/05 11:35 PM)


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: zahudulallah]
    #4162683 - 05/11/05 06:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Your condoning pedophilia?

A child doesn't know what sex is and shouldn't learn until their bodies naturally develope of age.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: zahudulallah]
    #4162704 - 05/11/05 06:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with your general stance in that who is to determine what an adult engaged in a consensual act is? Who made 18 the rule? Some 40 year olds ain't mature enough yet for it and maybe some 14 year olds are. Like when I see an 18 year old guy go to jail for having a kid with his 17 year old girlfriend whom he loves and wants to marry because it was considered statutory rape. The baby is raised without a father to help care for it who actually wants too. That shit is just dumb dumb dumb.

The boy who is making the current accusations says it wasn't consensual. More to take note of is that he said himself that he is also upset with his mother for allowing it to happen. This boy was not in con cent. This is the boy who said that he was being given wine and pills to "relax" him and that Micheal called it magic juice and happy pills or something.

I think the boy loved him in a universal/admiration sort of way but that isn't the same as sexual attraction or having sexual desires.

I want to know why the mother is not also being charged with child neglect, prostitution and endangerment. This woman got vacations, shopping sprees and a home in exchange for over nighter consent from her. She pimped her kid out. He is vocally angry with her.

Kids trust adults, they have to. Kids are easy to take advantage of too. Is that abuse of trust a moral/ethical issue or not? Should it be?

What sort of society do we want to live in where parents can pimp out their children?

Even if sex didn't take place, she pimped out her own kid. Man just being able to hang out with your idol should be more then enough. Why the need for his buying her all that stuff?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinenewjon
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: Ego Death]
    #4162721 - 05/11/05 06:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

moreover, it is (generally) far easier for an adult to mislead/brainwash/similar a child. Even at the age of 16 or 17 (legal as far as hereosexual sex is concerned, here in England) I have my doubts as to how able most teenagers are to make up their own minds, i.e. without being severly influenced by another, older - read: more experienced - person who has only one aim in mind.
Although it's difficult to pinpoint a "magic age" at which you suddenly become an adult, and even if you thought you could, it'd still be a generalisation, from everything i've read and seen and heard, 18 is a good compromise. By 18, in this part of the world at least, most people are experienced enough that they won't be completely blind to some slimeball or other. And, being a bloke, i'd like to point out that there are slimeball women too, it's just that there seem to be less of them, and the media rarely makes a fuss of them.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4162738 - 05/11/05 06:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have found the Michael Jackson trial to be difficult to analyze, especially considering the circus nature of it. But, nonetheless the trial brings up the issue of men, boys, and an apparent romantic sexual inclination on the part of a pop star.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: Ego Death]
    #4162749 - 05/11/05 06:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I was thinking:

Until recently, homosexuals were evil sexual freaks who were such an abhorration that it was entirely ethical, even encouraged to physically attack them.

Then some people pointed out that they weren't hurting anyone, so we swung our hate over to people who actually were: pedophiles.

Child molesters are THE people to hate nowadays. Child porn investigations are getting lots of funding, and catching them gets a ton of press.

But here's the question: Is the constant demonizing actually promoting the fetish? It seems pretty common in the world of wilder sexual fantasies to seek out and nurture the taboo.

By constantly attacking pedophilia, it's become THE MOST EXTREME FETISH YOU CAN HAVE.

Think of it this way, back in the 60s or 70s, before child molesters were the superstars they are today, if you saw a girl out of the corner of your eye, thought "whoa, she's hot!", then squinted and realized she was 12, you might think "oh, my mistake" and shrug it off. Nowadays, if you do the same thing, you'll probably think "what the hell was I doing looking at her? I hope nobody saw me... I couldn't have really thought she was attactive, could I?"

The bigger and wilder the anti-pedophilia rhetoric becomes, the harder we'll all be trying to think non-sexual things when seeing children... and I'm sure you've all tried to not think about something before.

So that's essentially why I think the media treatment of pedophilia might actually be encouraging it.

Also, the more we treat pedophiles like disgusting monsters, instead of people who need help in order to avoid harming others, the more likely we are to push them underground, and have them form isolated communities (As is happening online) where they will likely develop attitudes that they are being persecuted, and that they are underground heroes, living out their desires despite objection from everyone... and if you think this isn't already happening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sotos


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: newjon]
    #4162806 - 05/11/05 06:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'd propose lowering the age of consent to 12, reflecting the more libertine qualities of Spain, the Netherlands etc.

The whole concept of the innocent child is a social construct, much like how women were regarded as innocent and pure before feminism came to determine the politics of gender. The homosexual movement successfully changed how sex itself is viewed, and as it is, pedophilia determines various degrees of sexual development in adult males. Since the 1970's it has been fashionable to be concerned with adults who are attracted sexually to minors. The more absolutist views on child sexuality only followed the political normalization of gender/sex related issues (feminism and homosexuality). Currently the issue of pederastry is not a political one since all contacts between minors and adults, regardless of age and gender, are considered exploitive legally and morally.

From observing the various trends in sexual politics, I would say the emancipation of male ephebophilia/pedophilia is inevitable.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: zahudulallah]
    #4162868 - 05/11/05 07:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If the Netherlands are so libertine, why was the age at which one is allowed to smoke raised to 16 with sort of a bank card that can only be given to you when you're sixteen or over?

Why are they enforcing laws to prevent new coffeeshops from being founded, while at the same time preventing existing coffeeshops from being taken over by other people?

Why have they outlawed dried shrooms and is the government trying to outlaw fresh shrooms?

Why have they outlawed the Native American Church? Why have they conducted razzias on Native American Church services?

Why are they, like any other country in the West, creating more Anti-Terrorism rules?

And finally, why is the legal age for having sex not already 12 in Holland?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: zahudulallah]
    #4162871 - 05/11/05 07:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

From observing the various trends in sexual politics, I would say the emancipation of male ephebophilia/pedophilia is inevitable.



Are bestiality and rape next?


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4162891 - 05/11/05 07:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
Quote:

From observing the various trends in sexual politics, I would say the emancipation of male ephebophilia/pedophilia is inevitable.



Are bestiality and rape next?




I don't even think its articulate to compare bestiality to rape, let alone the two towards pederastry. I imagine the sexual revolution will end with the sexual empowerment of youths.


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4163596 - 05/11/05 09:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The Netherlands used to have lower age of consent laws for boys. This empowerment of adolescent boys has been lost to newer absolutes in recent years. Also previously in the Netherlands, youths involved in relationships with adults had the choice to press charges or not at the will of their parents.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: zahudulallah]
    #4163858 - 05/11/05 10:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

What is natural? I would abandon the thoughts of "evil" and "immoral", because these are really based on the twisting of the words of a dead Jew, so from a natural standpoint, is a child capable of having consensual sex?

Obviously, all natural selection cares about is that you pass your DNA on, whether through rape or marriage, but from a natural viewpoint, children's bodies have evolved to be ready for consensual sex starting usually at the age of 9 to 12, give or take a while for the exceptions. Under the assumption homosexuality is natural, which I believe it is, if a child is shown to be consensual and loving towards a man, is developed sexually and mentally capable of knowing what he's doing (and I do think children are mentally capable of knowing what they're doing during puberty) then I don't see a problem with it from a natural viewpoint.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: zahudulallah]
    #4163872 - 05/11/05 10:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

And on another note, your title seems incorrect. You know as well I, zahuddabear, that after humanity gets over one irrational fear, they will only get a new one. The only way this is the last frontier is if we blow ourselves up with nukes in the next few decades, otherwise we'll probably get over it and find something else to demonize and call immoral.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: Ravus]
    #4163959 - 05/11/05 11:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly my point. As there are healthy intergenerational relationships, each relationship should be dealt with individually to determine its quality, whether coercion is present.

To call pedophilia unnatural is ridiculous. Kids, and boys in particular, have been a staple of beauty since the dawn of time. Nowaday's an art work like Donatello's David would land someone with a kiddieporn rap. The whole basis of pederast persecution is the feminist notion that men are pigs and are incapable of expressing themselves sexually on the same developmental level of a young person.


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: Ravus]
    #4163968 - 05/11/05 11:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Wide spread moral panics will hopefully be marginalized with some kind of wide spread rationality

...but, for you I'll change the topic header :smirk:


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Edited by zahudulallah (05/11/05 11:31 PM)


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Offlinetomk
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Re: The Last Frontier [Re: zahudulallah]
    #4164070 - 05/11/05 11:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

14 posts about man boy love and no one mentioned the catholic church? It will be the catholic church that gains the most from allowing these relationships. It will happen when Pope Hitleryouth Ratman gets to serious work.


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"I am eternally free"


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Man/Boy Love [Re: zahudulallah]
    #4164129 - 05/11/05 11:57 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"I was a loved boy myself, and personally I deplore the witch hunts that men and boys in consensual relationships are subjected to in this day of age where dissidents of preconceptions automatically become sexual heretics."

If someone like you ever engages my children in such "love" they'll talk to my shotgun.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Man/Boy Love [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4164144 - 05/11/05 11:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

When I was 17 I was letting a older guy who was a scout leader tie me up and fuck me a couple nights a week. It was great fun, I wasn't victimized at all.

I got news for you, if zahudulallah did start fucking one of your kids, chances are your kid would be wanting the relationship as bad as zahudulallah was.

Further, being so controlling over your kids as to talk to their chosen lovers with a shotgun is a great way to drive them into the arms of freaks like zahudulallah.


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"I am eternally free"


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Man/Boy Love [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4164145 - 05/11/05 11:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
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Re: Man/Boy Love [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4164146 - 05/11/05 11:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:lol:


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