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OfflineSammy
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Registered: 09/03/02
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Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help.
    #4158373 - 05/10/05 06:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm lazy & I'm out of space / lights for the traditional meathod.

For those of you not familiar with Double Tubs, it's not a TiT (Tub in Tub incubator).  It's a lazy man's meathod to growing, and I need some experianced opinions.  Please  :thumbup:

So, I got the FLAT topped clear containers, polyfill, 1 inch holes drilled in them, BIG OLE trash bags, another mixing box, vermiculite., turkey tins & everything else.... but.....

worm castings? no.  I've been told I can use horse dung as a substitute. 

True?

If so I can use some of mine.

Also, is it advisable to also use straw with the H-dookie?

I think I'm still doing the 50/50 poo/vermiculite as described in the TEK also.  But, what's your favorite flavor of sterilizing the vermiculite??  PC or oven?? First time double tubber here.

Thanks for all the help.

Sam :crazy2: :mushroom2:


--------------------

I believe in the Golden Rule ? The Man with the Gold . . . Rules.
- Mr. T


Edited by Sammy (05/10/05 06:36 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: Sammy]
    #4158395 - 05/10/05 06:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

>worm castings? no. I've been told I can use horse dung as a substitute. True?

Yes. Hpoo will work better then castings. You can use any substrate for the double tub, thats not the point of the tek...its just a chamber in which to fruit bulk substrate.

This is how I do my h-poo. There are alot of additives that can be left out...only poo and verm is really needed but heres all the info I typed up earlier anyway, it may give you some sort of info
-------------------------
Put horse poo in a big tub.
Add water and a shot of vegetable oil.
Add a few chunks of coir. Remember it expands to 7 times the size. I add about 20%.
Soak for 30 minutes then spend 15-30 minutes mashing it up with your hands.
Add Kelp Meal if you got it (optional), 1 ounce of kelp to 1 pound of substrate.
Add about 5% finely chopped straw (from a blender) (optional too).
Pour off most all of the water so theres very little.
Add about 10% worm castings (optional) and mix well for a few minutes working the coir and such in.
Add dry chunky verm, about 10-25% until the texture and water content is right. Its important to drain the poo enough so that the water content is correct.
Scoop into PP bags and secure (lightly so they can breathe) with rubber bands and nuke for 2 minute intervals, mashing in between until they get pretty warm..usually takes about 3-2 minute nukes in my microwave for 5 pounds.
While thats going on, get water warming on the stove with a thermometer to 165-175, then plop the bag in for 3 hours, fully submerged except for the neck.

Thats about as optimal as I've got. Add 25-50% spawn rate to that (WBS, rye, rye grass seed) and it helps out alot. Many recipes exist and any can work if you understand what your adding and why. A fiberous texture will colonize quickly. Hpoo has that already, but adding coir gives it even more of that. Adding worm castings makes the poo muddier, which is also why coir is a good addition. Verm helps with the texture to fluff it out a bunch too, but it also helps with water retention. Straw chopped well in a blender will give some nice strands mixed in like the coir. Not much is really needed since h/poo already has a bunch, but I think a few more peices not broken down so much help fluff it up too. I do not know if worm castings actually does anything or not...if I just removed the worm castings and put in as much h/poo, it might perform just as well...but hpoo isnt easy to come by for me, so it helps to stretch it out and has worked just fine. It is very high in nitrogen though, so its not the best to use tons of it. Kelp meal adds to potency they say but I have yet to test this myself...it comes from a reliable source though :smile: Ground sunflower seeds (small amount) and rye can be added when you add the verm too. Sunflower seeds add oils and lipids needed and rye is a nice boost too. A high spawn rate of a mix of rye and birdseed (with the sunflower seeds left in) and a bit of rye grass seed works out well too.

Find what works for you and keep mushrooms needs in mind. Just like people that need balanced meals and diets containing all the food groups to give us all the vitamins we need, so do mushrooms. Mushrooms love a mix of a bit of everything...some things more then others and some less then others. You just have to find what they like more and less and give it to them.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Registered: 11/06/04
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Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4158479 - 05/10/05 07:09 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Nice write up scat :thumbup:

Just wanted to asqk about the poo....I know that you Can pasturize for 3 hours, but it's ok for one hour....Atleast, that's how long i've been doing it and so far, no contam rate...

What do you think?...

TC and gl with ur DT

-Gnostic


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4158589 - 05/10/05 07:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It is quite possible. Roadkill only does it for 30 minutes. If you cut the time back, I would insure that the center of the substrate reaches that temperature for the whole time. I dont ever take the temp of the substrate, just get it pretty hot in the nuker, then drop it in the hot water and start the timer at 3 hours from there. I'm sure it takes some time to get the substrate up to the correct temp (even after being heated in the microwave).

The thing is, when I do a batch, I do about 30 pounds of wet pasteurized substrate at a time, in one run. It worth it to add 2 hours a week to my time to make sure that each batch is right. If you happen to get a batch that didnt get heated enough, and you loose ALL that, it kinda sucks. Worth it to me to just drop the bags in the water for 3 hours. I'm pretty sure 30-60 minutes would work though :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemushroommark
Earning mybluethumb

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 359
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4158913 - 05/10/05 08:57 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

>>>>>>>>The thing is, when I do a batch, I do about 30 pounds of wet pasteurized substrate at a time, in one run. It worth it to add 2 hours a week to my time to make sure that each batch is right.<<<<<

Scat, about how much volume would you say that 30 pound batch takes up?? What I'm wondering is aprox how big a pot you use? And what type of PP bags do you use that would fit that much substrate? Or do you just use several bags all in the pot at once?

Just curious cause I'm thinking of trying the PP bag and water method again, even though the turkey tins have been working pretty well, I can only fit about 3 turkey tins in my oven (not sure how many pounds though, need to get a big scale), and I have problems getting them to heat evenly.

Just trying to figure out a little better way to do a large batch at once because you figure you can do 30 pounds in the same amount of time as five pounds if you have the right equipment and that can easily save 5 batches X 3 hours = 15 hours of pasteurizing.

Thanks
Mark


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: mushroommark]
    #4159580 - 05/10/05 11:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Scat, about how much volume would you say that 30 pound batch takes up?? What I'm wondering is aprox how big a pot you use? And what type of PP bags do you use that would fit that much substrate? Or do you just use several bags all in the pot at once?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have SMALL PP bags right now. Next time I will be ordering bigger ones. Each one holds about 2.5-3 pounds of poo (next bags should hold double) and I do about 10 bags at a time. 5 in one pot, 5 in the other (the two in the background)



I've found the volume to be about 1 pound=1 quart.

A batch:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemushroommark
Earning mybluethumb

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 359
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4159599 - 05/10/05 11:23 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Are the SMALL PP bags just the ones you buy from the store, ie. Reynolds Turkey Bags??

If not, where do you recommend ordering from?

Thanks scat


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OfflineKaptKid
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Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 6,247
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Last seen: 2 days, 16 hours
Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4159624 - 05/10/05 11:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

scat, cool

always wondered how long maximum pasteurizing time was.

:sun:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: KaptKid]
    #4159666 - 05/10/05 11:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Max I hear is 6-8 hours.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemushroommark
Earning mybluethumb

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 359
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: Sammy]
    #4160112 - 05/11/05 01:29 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Sammy, I've done a number of DT's and all I can say is that for texture, ease of use, colonization time, use h/poo...

I wouldn't bother with any other additives because I'm too busy these days, but if you have the time, i'm Sure scat's recommendations work spectacularly

But now that I've done poo I won't be going back to castings....



As soon as I get a few tubs flushed out, I will be able to let you know about yield and potency, all though I have a good feeling about both (especially after reading about scatman's crazy night)

Mark

Edit: about using the verm.... if you do end up trying castings, make sure to use 50 percent verm otherwise you will have a muddy mess.  :eek: But just mix the verm in with the castings and pasteurize together, no sterilizing.


Edited by mushroommark (05/11/05 01:37 AM)


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OfflineSammy
Between the fold

Registered: 09/03/02
Posts: 1,031
Loc: you'll shoot yer eye out ...
Last seen: 9 years, 6 days
Re: Double Tuble Trouble? LoL. Doing a DT, need a lil help. [Re: mushroommark]
    #4160996 - 05/11/05 10:10 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Well.. I stocked up last night and also rummaged in my supplies box for all this for the DT's and Scatman's substrate.

DT's semi setup:





Scatman's sub:

Some Reynolds PP bags not pictured
+

+

(Stupid straw took a fuckin hour to chop like this. Don't have a blender or food processor.. so chop chop and a few blisters later....)
+

(coco coir)
+
Vermiculite

Looking forward to doing all that and starting the DT's. Look for it in the Grow Log & Pics forum.

Sam


--------------------

I believe in the Golden Rule ? The Man with the Gold . . . Rules.
- Mr. T


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