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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
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Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Starchild]
#4157043 - 05/10/05 10:51 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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if you really want to know, you could consider submitting your CV to the circle of oroborous & see if one of their time patrol agents is willing to consider enlisting you into the service...
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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Starchild
Stranger
Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 77
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Re: Time Travel [Re: gnrm23]
#4157048 - 05/10/05 10:52 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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So basically the time dilation effect isn't particularly apparent except at speeds extremely close to light-speed (>90%, which is way out of our reach today)? That sucks .
Our only hope to accelerate the improvement in space travel technology in the near term, I think, is if life is found on Mars. I think that would really spark interest in the space program again and get things moving in the right direction.
-------------------- Be the change that you want to see in the world. Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. -Mahatma Gandhi
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Starchild
Stranger
Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 77
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Quote:
trendal said: Well I think the idea is that it would only be possible to travel BACKWARDS from one time-machine to another time-machine. Meaning you need to have something waiting for you IN the past to bring you there.
If that were true, then you could not travel back further than the first time machine, as before that there was nothing to travel back to.
. I've actually thought about that before, that's a good point. That is a possibility...but of course, there is the possibility that the time machine would be like an automobile or a space ship, something that travels with you. I guess you can call that "Back to the Future" time travel rules .
-------------------- Be the change that you want to see in the world. Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. -Mahatma Gandhi
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
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can you summarize the idea quickly?
~ the ratio is: 1 over the square root of (one minus (vee squared over cee squared))
OK?
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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Starchild
Stranger
Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 77
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Re: [Re: gnrm23]
#4157262 - 05/10/05 11:51 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks gnrm23. Using that formula, I now see that we would basically have to travel at 99.99%+ of light speed before any real useful time distortion would be obtained (for the purpose of time travel, anyway). Of course if we are able to travel at that speed someday, the nearest star systems will be within reach anyway.
So, a question then, just for clarification. Assuming that you are traveling at 99.99% of light speed, the time dilation factor for that speed is approximately 70. So, if your destination is 10 light years away, and you're traveling at essentially the speed of light, outside observers would say it took you ~ 10 years to arrive at your destination. But wouldn't it only feel like a couple of months to you, because of the time distortion?
-------------------- Be the change that you want to see in the world. Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. -Mahatma Gandhi
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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going backwards in a forward manner.. adding to the whole of the all!
-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
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KungFu_Shaman
naive and lovingit
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There's a great book called "How to Build a Time Machine" by Paul Davies.
It is a short read and explains everything really well.
-------------------- Feel the wrath of Skeletor's breakfast burrito!
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newjon
Stranger
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funnily enough, i very recently had an idea related to time travel. Inspired by stuff i've read, and films i've watched, and tv. There's at least one current, respected scientist writing about the brain and the mind, who has put forward the theory that the physical brain, and a non-physical "mind" that extends beyond the brain, are what we have. Suggesting there actually is substance to the idea of a "soul" or "spirit" or whatever you wanna call it. Assume, for a second, that this IS the case. Is it not possible that, when we sleep, our "soul" leaps forward in time to the moment we begin to wake up, leaving our physical body to rest? Ah, dammit, i forget how i put it in my head that sounded so good...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Starchild]
#4157850 - 05/10/05 02:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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So basically the time dilation effect isn't particularly apparent except at speeds extremely close to light-speed (>90%, which is way out of our reach today)? That sucks
Because I have run a lot over the years, I am actually 0.00000000000000000000378 seconds younger and people often comment to this effect.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Starchild]
#4157896 - 05/10/05 02:20 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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To me, making a rule like you cannot travel farther back in time than the first time machine sounds like human-inspired wishful thinking.
If we could potentially control black holes to create wormholes (I seriously seriously doubt we'll ever get near enough advanced to do this), you could theoretically accelerate one end of the wormhole relative to the other stationary end, and then bring it back. Time dilation would have it so that less time would have passed for the stationary end compared to the accelerated end, so if you entered the wormhole through the stationary end, you could potentially exit at an earlier moment in time through the accelerated end.
Is this possible? It is purely theoretical, but the main obstacle to it (other than the fact that it seems impossible for us to create) is that some mathematical models indicate a feedback of virtual particles would circulate through it and destroy it before any information could be passed through it. With greater understanding of things quantum in nature, we'll better be able to understand the characteristics of a wormhole, and the possibility of using it to go back in time.
As for the question of what would happen if you did go back in time, if you believe in the Many-Worlds Theory of quantum physics, in which we exist in an infinite or nearly infinte multiverse comprised of parallel universes, I believe you'd exist in the universe you'd create for yourself by travelling back in time, even if you did kill your grandfather, because you were born in another parallel universe and then travelled to another universe. In this case, you have a source, and are just travelling through our infinite multiverse.
It's even possible that in many other universes, or even our own, at this moment wormholes are being created and sending particles back to an earlier point in time to another universe.
Philosophically, the main problem any philosopher faces is the question: What is time? Can you travel back in time in one universe without creating a new universe in the multiverse? Or does all reverse time travel create different parallel universes, mirror images of the one you were in except for the fact that you've just entered it and changed it from the one you were at. The latter seems more likely, but time is still not understood from a philosophical viewpoint.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Starchild]
#4158293 - 05/10/05 04:13 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I want to understand more about how this works.
Do you have to actually be traveling or could you vibrate someone at the speed of light?
What actually cause the time shift? I assume its the mass moving and therefore vibrating someone on the spot, fast enough, would work.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Ego Death]
#4158308 - 05/10/05 04:17 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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vibrating is also a form of traveling, only think how intertion would affect the object
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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TrippinNinjaBuddha
ShroominSamurai
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Starchild]
#4158402 - 05/10/05 04:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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this is an interesting thread.
Is it safer to assume that all of our preordained notions about the nature of time - though the best we can do - are ridiculously off? In actuality, it seems to me that we probably are all guessing at these ideas based on our notion of time. Of course, we could be spot on about it's characteristics... but I doubt it.
Also, someone said something (I'm lazy, I know =D) that prompted me to remember my shroom-inspired revelation (it was quite visceral at the time):
The whole universe and everything in it existed as it is/was/whathaveyou before we came along and separated everything into little categories and named everything and designated properties to all of our little categories. When something comes along that totally blows our preconceptions away, we just say 'oh that is a property of x, I guess' or we say 'well geez it makes sense, let's just add this law of whoever'.
So I forget where I was going with that, but I guess I feel like sharing it anyway. Nice post, starchild.
-------------------- Jumped in a river, what did I see? Black eyed angels swimming with me Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see All my lovers were there with me All my past and all my futures We went to heaven in a little rowboat There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland
Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Starchild]
#4158496 - 05/10/05 05:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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what upsets me, is that people are more concerned with thigns outside their planet, than whats actually on it and going around them 24/7.
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Starchild
Stranger
Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 77
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Zero7a1]
#4158556 - 05/10/05 05:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zero7a1 said: what upsets me, is that people are more concerned with thigns outside their planet, than whats actually on it and going around them 24/7.
Hey, there's going to be a day when some form of time travel is possible, I believe. I think it's just as good a topic to discuss as any other philosophical issue. And certainly a breakthrough concerning time travel could happen within our lifetimes....but this also has implications for intra-solar commercial and industrial operations which will probably be common in 100 years.
-------------------- Be the change that you want to see in the world. Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. -Mahatma Gandhi
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Starchild]
#4158601 - 05/10/05 05:37 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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People always look at how every piece of knowledge and every piece of science can benefit them, but time travel could mean vast new implications for the multiverse and the spacetime fabric as we know it. If we could tweak a wormhole so as to go back in time, what couldn't we do? We could go back hundreds of millions of years and bring back developing baby dinosaurs, we could look at the origins of life, we could potentially see the creation of the universe itself.
Who knows, maybe we could even create new human-influenced universes, tweak it so as to create planets right for life and watch them grow. Then we could return to our universe, change the wormhole a little, and go back to these planets 300 million years later to see how they're doing- all within a few hours in our subjective time.
Imagine if that already happened to us.
Not that it matters though, when there's more important events going on like Renee Zellweger marrying Kenny Chesney.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Starchild
Stranger
Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 77
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Ravus]
#4158632 - 05/10/05 05:45 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: Not that it matters though, when there's more important events going on like Renee Zellweger marrying Kenny Chesney.
LOL...great post. I dream of the day that our society wakes up and puts more value into scientific research and is concerned with the improvement of our species in general. I don't think it will be anytime soon, unfortunately...but that's a whole different discussion.
-------------------- Be the change that you want to see in the world. Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. -Mahatma Gandhi
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Starchild]
#4158674 - 05/10/05 05:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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you are talking about two different types of time travel. one has to deal with manipulation of space-time, while the other is talking about actually manpulate the linear form of time. when I say linear form of time, I mean the human definition, and it is this definition you must break ino order to "time travel" WE use linear time to coordinate and organize etc et c...anyway...
going to the past is something seems impossible to me. I'm not saying it can't be done cause I can't say that either, but from this standpoint I take, it looks impossible. If you are going to the "past" then the "past" must exist.
so say you want to go back twenty years ago, everything and everyone must exist still in that form. see what I am referring to? that means an inifinite amount of you must exist in an infinite amount of ways. not to mention time travelling in the past changes the past and all that stuff. so if it is ever possible to do this time travel then the KING lives
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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eMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....
Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
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Re: [Re: Gomp]
#4158707 - 05/10/05 06:05 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gomp said: going backwards in a forward manner.. adding to the whole of the all!
. This makes complete sense to me.... Since the Universe flows in cycles, one may have to travel forward in time until he/she reaches that point in the past (in relation to "now")....
-------------------- Uni-VersALL MasterPeace eMotive Divinity NowThere Infinity eMelody
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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What evidence is there that the universe flows in cycles?
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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