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Offlinewintertime
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a glass of your finest red, God
    #415632 - 10/06/01 10:42 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Eph. 5:18 "Do not get drunk [methusko {meth-oos'-ko}: to get drunk, become intoxicated] on wine, which leads to debauchery [excessive indulgence in sensual
pleasures; intemperance; subversion of integrity, honesty, honor]. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." [Do not become intoxicated is the point, whether it be with booze or
illegal drugs. In Gal. 5:21 God equates the behavior typically associated with intoxication with "envyings, murders, revellings, and such like" and warns that such [unforgiven] behavior will not pass the gates of Heaven.]

http://www.capalert.com/capreports/

I was browsing the above address' archives of reviews of films from a Christian point of view <they are very picky, as they are reviewing with the intended audience of kids, but i digress> and I found the review for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. I couldn't help but grin as I knew they'd have a field day with it and I noticed they quoted the above passages from the Bible. (they put their own comments in the [] brackets). (and obviously the F&LILV guys arn't exactly model drug users)

Anyway.. just a few questions about the meaning of those passages.
okay
1. "which leads to debauchery" ? Being drunk doesn't necessarily mean you will rape women or become obnoxious or anything, does it?

2. "Instead, be filled with the Spirit." - arn't you then becoming intoxicated with the Spirit? I mean the dictionary defines intoxication as "Exhilaration, excitement, or euphoria." and isn't that what the Spirit gives you? I mean when it caused the people to speak in tongues, they did not have control over their actions, how is this different to alcohol?

3. What if drugs are used as a spiritual medium <I'm sure many of you have experienced this>, how is it different to praying?

Hope to hear some good replies

talkingrobielovesyou



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InvisibleRevelation

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Registered: 08/04/01
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: wintertime]
    #415780 - 10/06/01 02:57 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Heh, I was pleased to see "flatulence" in their list of evils. I kind of feel sorry for the creator(s) of that website...how can they possibly enjoy any film? It's right about one thing, Fear and Loathing really doesn't have much of a plot...it's entertaining though.

"Take me on a trip upon your magic swirlin' ship"


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: wintertime]
    #416041 - 10/06/01 07:54 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

heh... remember that the bible we have today is in no way the original bible... in no way the actual teachings of jesus christ... the bible was "torn apart", stuff was added, removed, changed, in order for it to become a "mass manipulation tool"... i find it sad...
but whatever, they forgot about one thing: the manna mentioned in the bible... are actually psychedelic mushrooms... yes... bluehoney.org had this amazing article about it... too bad the site doesn?t exist anymore... but perform a web search for bible+mushrooms... i guess you should get some results... good luck

_____________
"Heaven--as you call it--is nowhere. Let?s just put some space between the w and the h in that word and you?ll see that heaven is now...here." -God


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: wintertime]
    #416129 - 10/06/01 10:43 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

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Offlineoneoverzero
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: World Spirit]
    #416197 - 10/07/01 12:28 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Good info post Enter, (somehow you remind me of something on our keyboards? hmmm...)

I came up with this list 1,2,3... while meditating on a large tapestry mandala - the process of mental dissolving when drinking - each number 1,2,3... sorta corresponds to a drink or whatever alcoholic dose.

1. Anxiety and/or self-consciousness are increased
2. Comprehension begins to dissolve
3. Comprehension is at it's threshold
4. The rules of behavior begin to dissolve, and, anxiety and self-consciosness are dissolved
5. Coprehension is dissolved, and, the rules of behavior are at their threshold
6. The rules of behavior are dissolved

This list is imperfect, but an attempt to map the road ahead so many blindly drive down dangerously drinking dissolving.

Forever Never Stops


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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: wintertime]
    #416209 - 10/07/01 12:38 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

1. I don't rape or always become obnoxious when I'm drunk.
2. In some cases being filled with the "spirit" is more intoxicating than any drug you can find. Leading to hallucinations and feelings of pleasure and pain.
3. There is a difference between drug use and prayer. Drugs force you into another frame of mind and spirit and you are at the whim of the drug itself, where as prayer, and meditation, and magick (all the same in my book) are all things you do yourself and have some control over. Basically drugs are just the weak man's spiritual journey.

Don't beleive everything you know.
(Jonnyshaggs420 RIPPED ME OFF!!!!)
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For spores: FSR


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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: oneoverzero]
    #416245 - 10/07/01 01:24 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

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Offlineoneoverzero
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: World Spirit]
    #416321 - 10/07/01 03:04 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yes that is a THUMP you hear. It was a THUMP I saw. Now an echo in my karmic debt so it seems. My terrible mistakes I learn from - my little mistakes I get away with. This is the problem for me. Thanks for putting me in my place - I get out of line at times. We often are reflections of ourselves in other people's psyches and visa versa, if that helps to explain.

What can I do for you?

Forever Never Stops


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: World Spirit]
    #416855 - 10/07/01 02:03 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Well said. I would like to comment on the nature of the wines in question. The Greeks, particularly in connection to Dionysius, but also in general usage, utilized psychotropics in their wines. They were not merely products of fermentation, but had to be diluted as much as 20 parts water to one part wine. Madness and death could otherwise result (despite the fact that Dionysius was god of madness, ecstasy, and grapes, madness and death attributable to overdose was not a goal). Pharmakeia - drugs - sorcery was a 'path' that was prohibited by Jews. It is not merely the fruit of the vine in question.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #416884 - 10/07/01 02:55 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

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Offlineoneoverzero
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: World Spirit]
    #416997 - 10/07/01 04:31 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

When I violin and chello are playing a beutiful song, and, a trumpet joins in to add some brass, umm, it kinda makes the music sound different? Sorry, let me toot my horn for a moment, and then I will let the music continue...

I am a wine maker. I use 20 pounds of ordinary seedless red grapes run through a high-end food grinder to seperate the juice from the pulp and skins. Have you ever tasted a tall glass of fresh squeezed red grape juice? It's extrodinarily delicious!!! The juice is deluted 1:1 with spring water resulting with about 2 1/2 gallons. I start 2 grams of bakers yeast in a little bit of warm water with sugar until it foams - instantly poured into the 5 gallon carboy and sealed with a latex glove and duct tape. Swirled and left to stand still for about two weeks, the glove expands and finally collapses at the end of fermentation. Again, my appologies for blowing my horn (HONK!, hehe), but there is no greater exstasy from red wine I have ever know, than, the clear/blush dry I have made myself.

Please continue, my solo melody is done...

Forever Never Stops


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: a glass of your finest red, God [Re: World Spirit]
    #417319 - 10/07/01 10:24 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I would direct you to the scholarly work entitled: 'Persephone's Quest: Entheogens and the Origins of Religion' and the chapter 7 by Carl A.P. Ruck called 'The Wild and the Cultivated: Wine in Euripides' Bacchae.' In this chapter, references are made to Pliny, Homer, Aristophanes and other classical sources about the "spices, unguents and herbs" which rendered Greek wines "more hallucinogens than alcoholic intoxicants." Much about Greek Mystery Religions with which Paul had to contend, had to do with veiled references to drugs. Persephone was collecting certain plants when she was abducted by Hades to the underworld. The Eleusinian Mysteries were centered on Persephone, her mother Demeter (of the grain) and the death and rebirth motif of going to the underworld and being reborn on earth in a cyclical manner.

The substitution of the Eucharist for ealier entheogenic sacraments was a gradual movement and may have initially, at least, utilized entheogenic wine in the Communion meal. This was the practice since time immemorial - communion with God through a rite which used a sacred meal. It continues to this day with Native American Peyotists who celebrate the Body of Christ with Peyote - with MesoAmericans who use the Sacred Mushroom in a similar manner, and even among those Christian enthusiasts at the Shroomery who are attempting to integrate experiences that they Know are valuable, with orthodoxy. The Canon may be closed, but religious experience, thank God, is not.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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