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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4158599 - 05/10/05 07:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Those new digital 2.GHz phones often have an intercom feature, for what that's worth.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4158954 - 05/10/05 09:08 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I think you'd have a LOT of problems with stretching the tape, if you tried to play it at 120x. Can't be sure unless you try, but I think it would be a problem.

Also, a little known fact is that VHS is a digital format. The video frames are compressed MPEG-1, I think.

If at all possible, try to go 100% digital. Your compression rates will be WAY higher and signal loss/interference should have little to no effect on the end product.

I'm not sure how you could do this with off the shelf products. I was wondering about modifying an MP3 device to receive a wireless transmission and play back audio...but I'm not sure where to begin with that :smirk:

If you could do that...you could transmit a high-compression MP3 file of your audio. You might even get it down to a couple of megabytes which should be able to transmit in a matter of seconds on a good connection.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: trendal]
    #4159258 - 05/10/05 10:03 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I wasn't planning on doing anything analog at 120X. The broadcast could be digital. The recording speed in the car would be either 1X or 11X.

Playback would be either (1/11)X or (1/120)X.

What would be a good cheap high speed analog recorder?

The transmitter can be fairly sophisticated, but it is important that the in-vehicle system be cheap and held together with bubble gum and baleing wire.

Cheap and small and elegant is ok too though, as long as it works. I would kind of like for it to be something the user could build from a kit possibly.


If I go digital, how much memory would I need?

Could I use cheap PC ram?

If it is digital, the reciever will need memory, a processor, and probably an operating system.

The two devices will need to be able to communicate and check parity bits and break the data into packets and stuff.

If you could eliminate the hard drive in an old PC and replace it with solid state ram, maybe recycled computers could be made to work.

I am currently in school studying basic electronics classes. I'll probably be able to design my own circuit boards and make a custom device in a few years. I have a freind who has had some of those classes, and he built a MIDI card with that knowledge.


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4159583 - 05/10/05 11:18 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

It's not too hard at all to get a computer up and running with a RAM-disk instead of a hard drive, using linux.

You wouldn't need anything too powerful, either. A Pentium-1 at 200mhz should work fine for simple decoding/decompression.

Memory size really depends on how much data you want to send/store. I'd shoot for 32mb, or 64mb maybe though it may be overkill for what I think you want.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: trendal]
    #4159863 - 05/11/05 12:39 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Also, a little known fact is that VHS is a digital format. The video frames are compressed MPEG-1, I think.




Do you have a link for that?


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4160842 - 05/11/05 08:27 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

No, actually. I had heard that on a show on Discovery years ago.

I just looked into it though, and it looks like I was wrong. VHS is an analog system.

Check out this page for some GOOD info on the VHS system and VCRs in general:

http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/vcrfaq.htm


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But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: trendal]
    #4161839 - 05/11/05 02:51 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> Also, a little known fact is that VHS is a digital format. The video frames are compressed MPEG-1, I think.

I am fairly certain that this is incorrect. There is a D-VHS standard for digital-VHS. When VHS was invented, in the 70's, computers were not powerful enough to encode mpeg real time, which would have been required to write to the tapes. They wouldn't have been able to decode mpeg real time either.

The MPEG (motion picture encoding group) was founded in the late 80's, around 1988 if I remember correctly and the MPEG-1 specification wasn't released until 1992 and MPEG-2 came out in 1994.

Perhaps you are thinking about the laser disc. Most people don't realize that the laser disc was an analog, not digital recording.

Edit: just read your last post... you already corrected yourself.


Edited by Seuss (05/11/05 02:52 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Seuss]
    #4161991 - 05/11/05 03:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Would it be feasible, you think, to encode a digital audio signal onto digital-VHS?

The idea of using a cordless phone and a VCR together to bypass the FCC just tickles my scrotum.

Just how "unregulated" is the 2.x GHz spectrum really?

Where can I look up the different regulations for the different spectra?


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Edited by Baby_Hitler (05/11/05 03:51 PM)


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4166900 - 05/12/05 04:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I dont see why wireless lan wouldnt work. i am sure it was all configured dandy, you could send 1hr of voice audio in a couple seconds. I dont know much about other mediums, but im sure with the compression and wireless speeds (54mbit) its possible.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: tak]
    #4167051 - 05/12/05 05:36 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I was thinking about recycling old computers abd putting probably linux on them. Use a with a RAM-disk instead of a hard drive with a total total memory of maybe 256M.

And a linksys card or something.

Primitavenessis a characteristic I would like to see in the design, just for aesthetic purposes really.



I think the eventual design will be an in dash control panel connected to some kind of electronic system elsewhere in the vehicle, possibly the trunk.

It could be made of custom circuit boards, or it could be made up of spare parts from several different devices wired together. (VCR/telephone/ethernet card) (PC motherboard/wireless LAN card/ RAM-disk) (singing fish/DirecTV remote/CD-ROM drive), etc...

There may not nessisarily need to be one design. There may be several that work.


This will be great when they crack down on the internet. People will still be able to trade files on the interstate, even if they can't trade them on the internet, lolz.

I think I'll need as cheap an initial design as I can get away with. Early adopters will be willing to put up with some amount of inconvenience just to be ahead of everybody else on something, but hardly anybody will be willing to pay much to get into the system at first when nobody else is doing it.


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4168141 - 05/12/05 09:51 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

come up with a makeshift standard, and i will do my part! ill make a client for my car, and maybe a few roadside servers :laugh:


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: tak]
    #4172777 - 05/13/05 11:16 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder how hard it would be to get a wireless card to work on a 486 running MS-Dos.

Wireless networking cards don't go back that far do they?


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4173751 - 05/14/05 08:27 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Probably not, but the fact is, it would probably cost just as much money to buy a 486 as it would to buy a computer capable of running winXP that was tuned good, or some kind of linux/unix.

http://www.bananapc.com/products/productInfo.aspx?category_id=60&product_id=1884
500Mhz AMD K6-2 cpu's for $10.


http://store.yahoo.com/justdeals/p5sb0mwoa.html
Socket 7 Motherboard, $19

And 256mb dimm, im sure you can get for $20 or so, even if its valueram.

I am sure you can get a bunch of 4-10 gig hard drives for under $10 a pop on ebay.

Then get a cheap case, and a cheap wireless card, & you are set.

I guess that can add up pretty quick, but if you so some ebaying around you can find it all d ecently priced.

----------
Example:
----------

6 Cpu's, $40
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...ssPageName=WDVW
$6.67 Per Computer

6 Motherboards, $20
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4615&item=6767113623&rd=1
$3.33 Per Computer

7 Socket 7 Fans / Heatsinks, $10
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80149&item=6767822837&rd=1
$1.43 Per Computer

11 Strips of 64MB 168pin ram, $25 maybe
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51103&item=5194886916&rd=1
$2.27 Per Computer

5 Hard drives, 6.4GB, $33
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=168&item=6768531439&rd=1
$6.60 Per Computer

5 Wireless PCI Cards, $57
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...ssPageName=WDVW
$11.40 Per Computer

10 400Watt Power Supplies, $119
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51103&item=5195810303&rd=1
$11.90 Per Computer

I am not going to include computer case, because shipping would be too much. I am sure you can get these as cheap as $10 a peice, especially if you buy in bulk and already have the Power Supplies.

I dont know your full intentions, if this is going to be a single computer thing, or something you are trying to do around the world. But 6.4 gigs will hold a bunch of compressed music, and the cpu/motherboard will be able to run the wireless drivers & hardware. I doubt 486's even have PCI slots.
Total is prolly about $50 if you can get power supply/case locally, cases/Power supplies being the real major expenses, because they dont really get old and outdated.


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: tak]
    #4173756 - 05/14/05 08:33 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

And if range was ever an issue, I think you could use 2 wireless access points, spread out just in range of each other. That would double the distance the car would have to talk to that specific network. then throw the computer btween then, and the car would be talking to the same computer / storage system the whole time, with twice the distance.


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: tak]
    #4174371 - 05/14/05 01:48 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Don't all PC power supplies output some voltage DC?

I would think you would need much less in terms of a power supply for a computer in a car than for house AC.


Do you know the voltages used inside the computer. Seems like there were only two voltages coming out of a PC power supply.


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: tak]
    #4175078 - 05/14/05 05:08 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Laptops and notebooks would probably cost a little more than a desktop system, but would probably be more idealy suited for the job.

You can get working 133-200MHz laptops/notebooks on ebay for $50-$70.

All kinds of cheap laptops sell untested "for parts" for $10-$15.


I want to do a weekly show about the police officers that patrol the road where the transmitter is located. Around here they practice pretty much random searches of people's vehicles.

If they have a valid reason to pull you over (headlight, tail light, not wearing seatbelt, etc...) they often will ask for permission to search your car.

I could do a show just reading official transcripts of court cases where so & so was the arresting oficer. Let people know what their tactics are so they know what to do if they get pulled over. I could give advice like "don't drive with more than you can eat, just carry joints when travelling, that way you can eat all the evidence. "


BTW, that's the only thing joints are good for -- traveling.


You're listening to the Caped Madman on the green barn on Carson road channel.


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4177365 - 05/15/05 09:20 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I have a computer in my car. I have an opus power supply that takes 12v and powered the computer. small touch screen monitor up front, and a tiny keyboard on my sun visor attached with velcro. I use this pretty much to play mp3's and video's & hopefully some future GPS navigation.

I think it is becoming quite popular, and most people wouldnt mind installing whatever software was needed to pick up pirate radio ;P


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: tak]
    #4177366 - 05/15/05 09:21 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

my question is, where are you going to put these roadside computers? they need power, and probably need to be concealed while being as close to the road as possible


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: tak]
    #4179422 - 05/15/05 08:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You would need to find a landowner, and either get their permission to put something on their property, or buy the property.

You would need a computer, and a small structure to keep it out of the rain, but not block the signal. You could get a small generator to power it if you could not get grid power.

You think it would be possible to use a directional antenna to get more bandwith from the same wattage signal?


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Re: Transmitting data to a moving vehicle -- Wardriving, basically [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4247938 - 06/02/05 02:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hey Baby_Hitler;

I noticed this on slashdot today (from yesterday) and it sounds EXACTLY like what you were interested in doing.

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/01/1256254&tid=141

Quote:


from Wired.com 'Stuck in traffic and sick of Howard Stern, you may soon be able to tune in to the music collection of the person in the car in front of you. Researchers at Carnegie Mellon University are developing an ad hoc networking system for cars that would allow any driver to broadcast music to any other vehicle within a 30-mile radius. Developed by a group of current and former master's students at the Human Computer Interaction Institute, the Roadcasting project would allow drivers to stream their MP3 music collections by Wi-Fi or similar technology to any other vehicle within range that is equipped with compatible hardware and software. '"




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