Home | Community | Message Board


Everything Mushrooms
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
National ID Take Action
    #4153331 - 05/09/05 02:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: cb9fl]
    #4154158 - 05/09/05 06:35 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What's the point of having your religion/occupation on the card? Or is that just for example purposes?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4154216 - 05/09/05 06:53 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Where do you see that? Probably most likely an example as this hasn't passed yet and thus isn't implemented.

The law would trump state laws (unconstitutionally), cause our federal government to spend even more money, and prove little if any additional security while infringing on civil liberties.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: cb9fl]
    #4154309 - 05/09/05 07:13 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It would be nice to see a link to the actual legislation instead of a hysteria site.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: cb9fl]
    #4154311 - 05/09/05 07:13 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)



As if they are as blatant as putting the all seeing eye on the preview.. Damn, now I want one. 

NWO, here we come. :dancing:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: usefulidiot]
    #4154323 - 05/09/05 07:20 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Did anyone notice his eye type? glassy? lol


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: Catalysis]
    #4154401 - 05/09/05 07:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4154403 - 05/09/05 07:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Thirty second search on google for "REAL ID Act". I'm sure I could come up with other links but I'll leave that to you.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.418:
SEC. 202. MINIMUM DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUANCE STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION.

(a) Minimum Standards for Federal Use-

(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.

(2) STATE CERTIFICATIONS- The Secretary shall determine whether a State is meeting the requirements of this section based on certifications made by the State to the Secretary of Transportation. Such certifications shall be made at such times and in such manner as the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, may prescribe by regulation.

(b) Minimum Document Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall include, at a minimum, the following information and features on each driver's license and identification card issued to a person by the State:

(1) The person's full legal name.

(2) The person's date of birth.

(3) The person's gender.

(4) The person's driver's license or identification card number.

(5) A digital photograph of the person.

(6) The person's address of principle residence.

(7) The person's signature.

(8) Physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes.

(9) A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements.

(c) Minimum Issuance Standards-

(1) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall require, at a minimum, presentation and verification of the following information before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person:

(A) A photo identity document, except that a non-photo identity document is acceptable if it includes both the person's full legal name and date of birth.

(B) Documentation showing the person's date of birth.

(C) Proof of the person's social security account number or verification that the person is not eligible for a social security account number.

(D) Documentation showing the person's name and address of principal residence.

(2) SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS-

(A) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall comply with the minimum standards of this paragraph.

(B) EVIDENCE OF LAWFUL STATUS- A State shall require, before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, valid documentary evidence that the person--

(i) is a citizen of the United States;

(ii) is an alien lawfully admitted for permanent or temporary residence in the United States;

(iii) has conditional permanent resident status in the United States;

(iv) has an approved application for asylum in the United States or has entered into the United States in refugee status;

(v) has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa or nonimmigrant visa status for entry into the United States;

(vi) has a pending application for asylum in the United States;

(vii) has a pending or approved application for temporary protected status in the United States;

(viii) has approved deferred action status; or

(ix) has a pending application for adjustment of status to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States or conditional permanent resident status in the United States.

(C) TEMPORARY DRIVERS' LICENSES AND IDENTIFICATION CARDS-

(i) IN GENERAL- If a person presents evidence under any of clauses (v) through (ix) of subparagraph (B), the State may only issue a temporary driver's license or temporary identification card to the person.

(ii) EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall be valid only during the period of time of the applicant's authorized stay in the United States or, if there is no definite end to the period of authorized stay, a period of one year.

(iii) DISPLAY OF EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall clearly indicate that it is temporary and shall state the date on which it expires.

(iv) RENEWAL- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph may be renewed only upon presentation of valid documentary evidence that the status by which the applicant qualified for the temporary driver's license or temporary identification card has been extended by the Secretary of Homeland Security.

(3) VERIFICATION OF DOCUMENTS- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall implement the following procedures:

(A) Before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, the State shall verify, with the issuing agency, the issuance, validity, and completeness of each document required to be presented by the person under paragraph (1) or (2).

(B) The State shall not accept any foreign document, other than an official passport, to satisfy a requirement of paragraph (1) or (2).

(C) Not later than September 11, 2005, the State shall enter into a memorandum of understanding with the Secretary of Homeland Security to routinely utilize the automated system known as Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements, as provided for by section 404 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (110 Stat. 3009-664), to verify the legal presence status of a person, other than a United States citizen, applying for a driver's license or identification card.

(d) Other Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall adopt the following practices in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards:

(1) Employ technology to capture digital images of identity source documents so that the images can be retained in electronic storage in a transferable format.

(2) Retain paper copies of source documents for a minimum of 7 years or images of source documents presented for a minimum of 10 years.

(3) Subject each person applying for a driver's license or identification card to mandatory facial image capture.

(4) Establish an effective procedure to confirm or verify a renewing applicant's information.

(5) Confirm with the Social Security Administration a social security account number presented by a person using the full social security account number. In the event that a social security account number is already registered to or associated with another person to which any State has issued a driver's license or identification card, the State shall resolve the discrepancy and take appropriate action.

(6) Refuse to issue a driver's license or identification card to a person holding a driver's license issued by another State without confirmation that the person is terminating or has terminated the driver's license.

(7) Ensure the physical security of locations where drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced and the security of document materials and papers from which drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced.

(8) Subject all persons authorized to manufacture or produce drivers' licenses and identification cards to appropriate security clearance requirements.

(9) Establish fraudulent document recognition training programs for appropriate employees engaged in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards.

(10) Limit the period of validity of all driver's licenses and identification cards that are not temporary to a period that does not exceed 8 years.




Bold emphasis mine.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4154409 - 05/09/05 07:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.epic.org/privacy/id_cards/

Edit:
removed a link, cb9fl posted the same one.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: cb9fl]
    #4154479 - 05/09/05 08:02 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you. I assume that the bold passages are those that are of greatest concern to you. Are you in this country illegally?

As to #6 I believe that it is already illegal to have drivers licenses from more than one state at a time. At least it is in New York. I think it's also already illegal to have DLs in more than one name and with an incorrect address within a few months of a change.

Everything here is already required in NY, except for the Homeland Sec confirmation of immigration status.

Don't you think that card with the religion line was just a tad misleading? Do you wonder why I ask for this shit and don't just listen to hysterical moonbats?


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4154499 - 05/09/05 08:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Are you in this country illegally?

No I was born in the US. However I take offense at the blatant desecration of the US Constitution.

Quote:

AMENDMENT X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.




And Amendment IX while we're on the subject.

Quote:

AMENDMENT IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.




Not to mention the abuse of my money at the federal level.

At least it is in New York.

Exactly, it's up to the state not the federal government.

Don't you think that card with the religion line was just a tad misleading?

Honestly I didn't even notice what the ID stated until you just posted that. I spent my time researching the topic and reading the actual bill and possible ramifications instead of gawking at a picture.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: cb9fl]
    #4154522 - 05/09/05 08:16 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

cb9fl said:


The law would trump state laws (unconstitutionally), cause our federal government to spend even more money, and prove little if any additional security while infringing on civil liberties.




Yes, these are things that this current administration does so well and so often, so it's not much of stretch, really......  :frown:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4154608 - 05/09/05 08:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You do not have a right to a drivers license. The only federal expense would be the checking of immigrant status, which they should be doing anyway. I believe that curtailing the illegal acquisition of drivers licenses will enhance our security. And I fail to see just which of your civil liberties are being impinged. You are not being compelled to carry ID except when you drive, which is already required in every state. The only people who this will impact are illegal immigrants. Note the all important modifier in the last sentence illegal.

As to the religion line, I did not pick it up, Psychoactive did. I mentioned it because it pointed out the hysterical nature of your first link. Now aren't you glad I requested a real informative link, so we could have a real debate over the real piece of legislation? Or do you prefer the distorted hysteria?


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4154647 - 05/09/05 08:53 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You are not being compelled to carry ID except when you drive, which is already required in every state.

(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.

It appears section i.1. would affect employment. The federal government would be given authority via the National ID to determine who can work within a state.

I'm not pro-state's rights as much as I am anti-large government. At the very least we should be fighting to limit the federal governments power as much as possible. If there were 48 (50 but Alaska and Hawaii don't count) states all with greatly varying policies we could have a true sense of capitalism in the states. Each state vying for the best position rather than a monolithic corporation (government) exerting control over all residents.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: cb9fl]
    #4154694 - 05/09/05 09:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

At most, I can construe that passage to relate to the federal government no longer accepting licenses from states that toss them out as candy for any identification purposes that the federal government already requires. I do not see at all where you got your conclusion about employment for anything other than the federal government. It just isn't there. It doesn't say that at all.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4154716 - 05/09/05 09:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

SS is a federal program.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: cb9fl]
    #4154732 - 05/09/05 09:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You don't need a DL. You can produce other forms. They just won't accept as ID a DL from states that don't perform due diligence in issuing licenses. That's all it says.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4154757 - 05/09/05 09:33 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I live in a state that is a perfect example. Anyone hear of the "license for bribe" scandal in IL? This alone has resulted in the direct deaths of dozens of people killed on the road...not to mention the immigration issues.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: Catalysis]
    #4154784 - 05/09/05 09:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

That is unfortunate but would you rather the federal monolithic government is in charge of what should be state's rights?


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: National ID Take Action [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4154836 - 05/09/05 09:53 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You do not have a right to a drivers license. The only federal expense would be the checking of immigrant status, which they should be doing anyway. I believe that curtailing the illegal acquisition of drivers licenses will enhance our security. And I fail to see just which of your civil liberties are being impinged. You are not being compelled to carry ID except when you drive, which is already required in every state. The only people who this will impact are illegal immigrants. Note the all important modifier in the last sentence illegal.





No, we don't a right to a Driver's License, but can they not already check immigration status without the implementation of some sort extensive (and costly) national I.D. system? It's not so much the idea of a national ID that bothers me - it's the implication of what may be next. Thanks to the "Patriot Acts", my 4th Amendment rights have been weakened (And don't tell me some vindictive cop won't abuse the warrentless "look around" provision in the act).
And it's all in the name of "security". What next? Having to inform the government you're going to take a trip out of state? Where will it end? Quite frankly, this does not sit well with me at all......


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Republican David Dreier Introduces National ID Legislation ekomstop 545 1 09/28/04 03:07 PM
by ekomstop
* WAPO ..king george plans to use your body as your national ID...
( 1 2 all )
Annapurna1
1,232 26 12/24/07 02:03 PM
by wilshire
* Senate Passes Real ID: National ID Card On Its Way
( 1 2 all )
usefulidiot 2,505 24 12/17/11 08:21 PM
by Shill
* How would you feel about a National ID Card? MOTH 481 12 09/14/04 10:41 PM
by Observer
* House 9/11 Bill: Patriot II, National ID... ekomstop 1,324 10 10/05/04 01:38 AM
by retread
* National ID and the Database State, anything to fear? psilomonkey 231 0 12/23/07 06:53 AM
by psilomonkey
* National ID cards hit Great Britian TrueBrode 589 5 04/29/04 07:29 PM
by TrueBrode
* ID cards in Britain. luvdemshrooms 1,880 17 11/12/03 03:51 PM
by GazzBut

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil
1,846 topic views. 1 members, 2 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
FreeSpores.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.044 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 21 queries.