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InvisibletrendalM
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Cyborgs and human augmentation
    #4151855 - 05/09/05 12:46 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think many people will have a problem with augmentation for disabilities (say, an artificial leg controlled by a neural implant)...but I suspect there will be a great deal of resistance towards augmentation just for enhancement.

We are probably only a few years away from the first true "cyborg" implantable devices. Research into neural interfaces is making headway. There is at least one person on this planet who has an implanted device to giver her vision despite being blind from birth (very crude vision, but quite a step up from total blindness). Dr. Kevin Warwick has implanted a small micro-array into a nerve bundle in his elbow, and has been able to record the nerve signals sent down his arm onto a computer, then "play" them back to his arm at a later time causing it to move without his trying. His wife had a similar device implanted into her arm, and I think they have had some success with transmitting sensations and movements back and forth. He has also been able to interface with a robotic arm in another city, over the internet, and have it do some tasks.

Pacemakers and other such medial devices are also a form of cyborg implant, though most people I have spoken to do not really consider it as so.

Now, before you wonder why I'm posting this in S&P, it is the philosophical/ethics side that I want to discuss.

For the sake of argument, we will ignore the obvious issues of health risk. Assume that any implants have been thoroughly tested and found safe.

Would you consider getting an implant, other than for a life-threatening or disabling condition?

Would you consider getting an implant which caused a permanent alteration of your consciousness (alteration of your intelligence, or addition of mental abilities)?

What ethical concerns would you have over implantation for enhancement?

For those who would consider cyborg enhancement, where would you draw the line?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: trendal]
    #4151875 - 05/09/05 12:49 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

There is, of course, some philosophical concerns with cyborg augmentation as well.

At what point do we consider a person no longer human?

After the first implant? The tenth?

Is someone with a pacemaker no longer "fully" human?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: trendal]
    #4151876 - 05/09/05 12:49 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

you read this.

http://www.bmezine.com/news/pubring/20040226.html

And this was a cool idea that I suppose was not finished. http://www.psymbiote.org/


Edited by RedNukleus (05/09/05 12:50 AM)


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: trendal]
    #4151918 - 05/09/05 12:57 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I would think for intelegence it would be a very bad thing to do. Just cuz i could only imagine what things could happen. And I wouldnt think intelegence of a higher quality would be to safe. "ego" can come into play and make a very messy situation.

But for shits n giggles id get an artificial eye that would sence energy fields.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4151922 - 05/09/05 12:58 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That's quite interesting about the magnet in the guy's finger!

Though it's quite a lot more low-tech than what I had in mind, the reported effect (he is able to sense magnetic fields!) is exactly the type of thing I'm referring to when I say "addition of mental abilities". Obviously his "magnetic sense" is very crude, and is really just his sense of touch telling him how the position of the magnet in his finger changes when influenced by an outside field.

Imagine if true "addition" of senses became possible. The ability to detect an electric field like a shark does, for example. Something that doesn't simply rely on alteration of a pre-existing sense.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #4151930 - 05/09/05 01:02 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

But for shits n giggles id get an artificial eye that would sence energy fields.

I always thought it would be cool if you could "see" radio waves in the spectrum used by police radar. The ULTIMATE radar detector :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: trendal]
    #4151939 - 05/09/05 01:04 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That would definetly be cool. I would also like to have a ear that can zoom in on certain sounds, while not making the whole world deafening.


--------------------




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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #4151978 - 05/09/05 01:16 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I actually have a human augmentation that allows me to prevent my eardrums from vibrating and passing a signal to my brain. I love it and it comes in handy.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4151987 - 05/09/05 01:21 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

How does it work? ear muffs?


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #4151997 - 05/09/05 01:25 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)


I like your little title there.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4152037 - 05/09/05 01:36 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

like duh....


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: trendal]
    #4152349 - 05/09/05 04:06 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I saw this documentary about an implant that allowed deaf children to hear. They implanted it in a practically newborn baby. It cried like it was going mad for about 3 consecutive days.

Imagine gaining a new sense. Wouldn't you yourself be seriously disoriented if you had to deal with an entirely new spectrum of sensations?

Personally, I'd draw the line for implants when they stop becoming available for the general employed populace. If they aren't cheapish, the gap between the rich and the poor will be widened, and is that really what the world needs?

So, for example, sensing electrical fields will have no impact on the gap between rich and poor, because we don't need the ability in regular life. Nor would any type of implant that 'repairs' the impaired.
Increasing stamina, intelligence, coordination, life span, etc beyond average levels would create an alpha class that could be done without.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: trendal]
    #4152369 - 05/09/05 04:15 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

*Swami puts glasses in the garbage disposal*

I don't want to be no fucking half man / half machine!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4152564 - 05/09/05 08:10 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I saw this documentary about an implant that allowed deaf children to hear. They implanted it in a practically newborn baby. It cried like it was going mad for about 3 consecutive days.

They're called cochlear implants. They are still fairly crude, and only offer hearing at a handful of specific frequencies, but the concept is an awesome one. Giving hearing to a person who has never heard.

Now personally I think that, at first, anyone who does chose outright enhancement through cyborg implants will end up as something of a sub-class. I seriously cannot see very many people jumping on the wagon right from the start, even for implants which could double your innate intelligence or something else that drastic. These first people would likely be outcasts to begin with, and find themselves pushed aside even more once they do go cyborg.

Humans are rather prejudiced.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: trendal]
    #4153523 - 05/09/05 03:45 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting topic.
Personally, I'm all for it, as far as enhancements and disability-counteracting implants go.
People already wear hearing aids; humans wearing technological devices to correct their deficiencies and function more efficiently, if that isn't a form of 'cyborg enhancement', I don't know what is.

One person said here long ago: "Technology is mankind's exoskeleton."
We all use computers as "secondary brains", if you think about it. I might even stick my neck out so far as to say that all technology IS an extension of ourselves.
Simply because such technology may not be physically attached to ourselves, shouldn't necessarily mean that it isn't already a form of 'exoskeletonizing'. But I understand you had that specific form/image/type of exoskeletonizing that is akin to the Borg on StarTrek, in mind.

In regards to where the line would be drawn between human/nonhuman when it comes to Borg-like transformations... It really boils down to what humans identify themselves with most. If they identify with their body more, than they would most likely feel "lesser human" if they were to undergo a change a la` Borg. But take an individual who's more identified with his mind, intellect and consciousness... This person would make the ideal Robo-cop, and still feel human, because unless you take away his brain, you cannot take away that essence of humanness.

And I'd suspect the Japanese would probably be the leading populace of the world that would have the least amount of qualms in that matter.




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: Swami]
    #4153558 - 05/09/05 03:54 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
*Swami puts glasses in the garbage disposal*

I don't want to be no fucking half man / half machine!




Better throw away your car, T.V., microwave, computer....etc, while your at it.

They all enhance our abilities in some form or fashion


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: trendal]
    #4153581 - 05/09/05 04:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I for one am definately in favor of implantable devices.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4155434 - 05/10/05 12:47 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Who is deciding that he likes that, you or your reptilian brain?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: trendal]
    #4155490 - 05/10/05 01:04 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

as long as the implants had been tested throughly and found safe, and I had a decent understanding of how they worked, then I would say HELL YEAH to any cybernetic enhancements that could increase my capabilities. I don't see any kind of moral problem with that at all.

technology exists for our benefit. end of story.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Cyborgs and human augmentation [Re: Swami]
    #4156336 - 05/10/05 07:25 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

No, that would undoubtedly be my mammalian brain, as in mammal, mammaries and mamma!


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