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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Swami]
    #4165738 - 05/12/05 09:00 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I am in a wheelchair for life after jumping off a cliff as outlined in the books. :frown:

I can hardly wait to try Jimson Weed next...




You are a failure as a sorcerer! :thumbdown: Ha I make that jump all the time. And you call yourself a warrior. Not likely. :grin: :stoned: :tongue:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 months, 19 days
Re: Castaneda... [Re: emptywisdom]
    #4165919 - 05/12/05 10:04 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Simply put, If he just "made all that shit up" then he displayed the single greatest imagination and cohesive direction in the history of fiction.

That's an entirely subjective viewpoint, being used to justify a concrete fact.

Why are the books too fantastic to be made up?

From wikipedia:
Quote:

In the late seventies, investigative journalist Richard de Mille played detective, and traced Casteneda's activities. He gained access to the stack requests of the UCLA library, and was able to determine that, at the times Casteneda claimed he was in the field, studying under Don Juan, he was actually in the University's Library. Further, the books and articles that Casteneda was requesting made clear that when Casteneda claimed he was participating in traditional activities, like the traditional peyote ceremony, he was actually just reading about the traditional peyote ceremony.

These revelations did not serve to reduce Castaneda's popularity, perhaps because if the books were created by Castaneda, rather than autobiographical, then they suggest to his readers that he was more talented and spiritually aware, not less.




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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Phluck]
    #4165925 - 05/12/05 10:07 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

So we know that, at the very least, Castaneda did a lot of research on the topic he wrote about. That speaks in favor of him.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Nomad]
    #4166424 - 05/12/05 01:16 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

We also know that the Mexican Federalis killed off most of the Yaquis in the late 1800s and early 1900s and totally disrupted their way of life and that no sorcerers protected the tribes.

So much for POWER...  :rolleyes:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Swami]
    #4166924 - 05/12/05 03:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You fail to understand that that a book can be compelling fiction, and still have much to say about life and culture? These books were not meant to be taken totally literal. Use some analytical skill in appraising them...after reading them of course.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4166949 - 05/12/05 03:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

We have had the exact same conversation about five times now! :lol:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Swami]
    #4167031 - 05/12/05 03:33 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

How bout it! :lol:

I think it's been all in the last 5 months too.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Swami]
    #4167070 - 05/12/05 03:39 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You keep saying the same thing about it...so I do as well. I must support my position...after all I'm right.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: Icelander]
    #4167079 - 05/12/05 03:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In the early 1970's, the series of books (Vol. 1-24, the 1st book was free) entitled Man, Myth and Magic came out, edited by occult-writer Richard Cavendish and contributing editors such as the great historian of religion Mircea Eliade (I own a set). One can find such obscure things as the conical witch's hat, originating in Mexico. Casteneda said in one of the books that this is what an 'ally' looked like to a crow when it (or a sorcerer who has become a crow) 'saw' with one's luminous body - a sort of witch's hat suspended in the air, not a humanoid. I am certain that Casteneda familiarized himself with these volumes.

Want to find out about the 'luminous egg' (albeit, minus the "gap" and 'fibers of will')? Pick up an early 20th century copy of The Astral Plane by C.W. Leadbeater. The 'gap' seems like the Manipura Chakra (in the astral sheath or body) with psychophysical embellishments.

Want a demonic twist? Look how Casteneda reduced a mystico-religious experience to something called "The Mold of Man," essentially demonstrating contempt for Catholic mystics throughout the ages and reducing the experience to an ego-manipulated technique devoid of any higher implications.

Elements of fakirism from India, European witchcraft (re: the Devils's Weed, Jimson Weed), Peyotism, MesoAmerican mushroom use, 19th century occultism, Toltec fabrications (like 'The Eagle' - a god which 'eats' one's 'spark of awareness' - a sort of gnostic return of the spark to the Pleroma), and a purely sci-fi mentality (e.g., "Inorganic Beings"), just to cite a few notable elements were clearly NOT "from the top of his head." He pilfered numerous and sundry sources, reduced the particularities to concepts and wove them together into some ancient Toltec-named fantasy. Hell, even the film 'Altered States' was supposed to have drawn its mystery psychedelic from a Toltec (obviously Casteneda-influenced) tradition.

I've been studying occult traditions since 1972, and looking back over the Casteneda series, it was fun to discern from which sources he drew certain things from.

Note: After researching and finding this old post, I ordered Thought Forms, a book by C.W. Leadbeater & Annie Besant, which is apparently the original source of the clairvoyant perception of a departed spirit of a spiritual (vs. materialistic) being who dies. This material ended up in Cavendish's series as well as in Gettings' Secret Symbolism in Occult Art which I serendipitously rediscovered tis evening. I am certain that the late Carlos Casteñeda appropriated Leadbeater's work for his book A Separate Reality, page 41, re: that an ally looked like a witch's hat, or a dripping piece of cloth in that shape. This addenda is being made on 08/10/2016 at 2:48 a.m..

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/10/16 12:52 AM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4167105 - 05/12/05 03:46 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

There was a book a few years ago called "Emissary of Light" about the Bosnian war, a musician, prayer and spiritually advanced "lightworkers" presented as non-fiction. The author later admitted that he changed and embellished.

If the main thrust of the book (You too can be a powerful sorcerer; or you too can channel light energy and perform miracles through meditation) is bullshit, I find it hard to learn much. Metaphor is metaphor and lies are lies.

Would you buy a book, "How to Achieve Physical Perfection" by a chain-smoking, obese sloth, even though there may be a kernel or two of "truth" in the book?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Castaneda... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4167115 - 05/12/05 03:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"it was fun to discern from which sources he drew certain things from."

The diversity of influence is what gave them their flavor and depth.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4168195 - 05/12/05 08:07 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps, but I despise deception. I for one, believed Casteneda was relating true events, howsoever subjective they became. I got sucked in like the rest. Shame on me.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Castaneda... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4168372 - 05/12/05 08:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Ever heard of allegory? Most of those books were marketed as fiction. Anyone should be able to check the spine. All of my copies from "Tales of Power" on are clearly marked fiction. (I don't know about Magical Passes since I do not own it) Since his death the publisher has remarked some as non-fiction. To buy into any philosophy hook, line, and sinker is foolishness. To buy into a philosophy that accounts for 2000 foot cliff jumps is insane. One should always consider the source of information and exercise their ability to discern truth. Deception or not, Castaneda's work was responsible for a surge of interest in Native American culture and religion. This in turn has brought these people into the world consciousness as a respected culture by inspiring a generation of social scientists. I, for one, was intrigued enough with his work to go on and explore the shamanic traditions and philosophies of a variety of native cultures. This has led to many interesting experiences, meeting interesting people, and transformed my views on nearly every issue that I held opinions on. I do not feel deceived by Castaneda, but that in the philosophies and fantasies he wove together a door opened for me to explore many interesting things I had never considered. I have never held Castaneda's work to be absolute spiritual truth, but it kindled within me the desire to seek for it.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (05/12/05 09:52 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4172534 - 05/13/05 07:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

This came from another forum I belong to. I want to share it because it says it the best I have ever heard it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ultimately, the value of entering a nonordinary state, as you do with peyote or other psychotropic plants, is to exact what you need in order to embrace the stupendous character of ordinary reality."
This kind of insight, and experience, is what makes Castaneda's writings valuable, in my opinion. He can't really teach us much directly, in terms of methods and practices.

With the character of Don Juan, we enter the domain of the mythic. What we can take from it is an attitude - an intangible, partly emotional, partly intellectual, "frame-of-mind" that can inspire your own personal, mythic and rational mode of self transformation.

And for this to be "real", it has to be brought into our "ordinary" life. :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinekratomboy
Drifter
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Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 187
Loc: Nevada
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: Castaneda... [Re: kratomboy]
    #4172713 - 05/13/05 08:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I've always thought castaneda's books would make for really cool anime. Done in the right style of course.


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:kodama:"We must see that consciousness is neither an isolated soul nor the mere function of a single nervous system, but of that totality of interrelated stars and galaxies which makes a nervous system possible."

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Castaneda... [Re: Icelander]
    #4172837 - 05/13/05 09:38 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Good quote. Joseph Campbell believed that the foundation of our psyche is rooted in myth...I concur.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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