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Offlinekratomboy
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Castaneda...
    #4148967 - 05/08/05 02:37 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm wrapped up in his books right now. Just finished #4. Has anyone out there actually put any of this stuff into actual use in their lives? I can't seem to decide if this is just a fictional novel or if it's actually true. I'm having a hard time believing it all, yet it's still a good read.


--------------------
:kodama:"We must see that consciousness is neither an isolated soul nor the mere function of a single nervous system, but of that totality of interrelated stars and galaxies which makes a nervous system possible."


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: kratomboy]
    #4148996 - 05/08/05 02:51 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

im pretty sure it's generally regarded as a hoax castaneda pulled on his school. great reading tho- i just finished the first half of book 1- great stuff. "and the second obstacle is clariy" etc


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinekratomboy
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4149020 - 05/08/05 02:57 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think there's a lot of wisdom in the books... which is the only thing that makes me wonder if there's any truth in it.


--------------------
:kodama:"We must see that consciousness is neither an isolated soul nor the mere function of a single nervous system, but of that totality of interrelated stars and galaxies which makes a nervous system possible."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: kratomboy]
    #4149049 - 05/08/05 03:08 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Great books! And in 1972 when I read the second one - 'A Separate Reality' - the chairperson of the philosophy department exclaimed "Oh - we have a philosopher here!" and I was quite pleased with myself. My friend Kenny and I would be drunk in the woods and running stiff-legged with our fingers curled under imagining that we were doing incredible running feats with "the gait of power." We would survey a field while on acid, looking for a "power spot" on which to sit. Ah, youth! Fantasy, playfulness, childlike abandon to such wonderful stories. Alas....Don Juan Matus, Genero, the ally's and things that go bump in the chapperal at night - all fictions of a masterful story-teller, but a very dishonest academic. I'll tell you what world-renowned Egyptologist and published parapsychologist Bob Brier told me just after Halloween 1974 when he met Carlos Casteneda at the yearly meeting of occultists at Harry Houdini's grave:  "There IS no Don Juan." Sorry about that bubble pardner - but it was burst for many of us long ago  :frown:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (05/08/05 11:41 PM)


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InvisibleJellric
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Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: kratomboy]
    #4149084 - 05/08/05 03:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I was first introduced to the books when I had just begun to trip about ten years ago. They are intimately intertwined with my life at that time and I find it hard to judge them objectively for that reason. They are what they are. Take what you can from them and discard the rest as you would any other book.

But don't avoid reading them..


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: kratomboy]
    #4150474 - 05/08/05 04:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

In Journey to Ixtlan there is much useful info on what it means to take responsibility for yoursself and your actions.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: kratomboy]
    #4150605 - 05/08/05 05:54 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I read or devoured the first four books when they came out. Yes I'm that old. :shocked: I have now re read them for the 23 time, and feel it is time to start them up again.

I have used them as a guide for work on myself. Especially taking responsibility and using death as an advisor. They speak to me more than anything else I have found out there and the philosophy is good. The rest may be faked, and I care less. What a masterful forgery to fool so many for so long. And here we are still discussing them.

What is interesting to me and a few people I have met noticed it also. After the 4th book the tone changed and the style so much that I came to the conclusion that another author was responsible, or it was a plan to throw people off his trail or something. I have never been able to get into any of the other books. How werd. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: kratomboy]
    #4151311 - 05/08/05 10:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Whether they are fictional or not does not detract from the knowledge and wisdom within, after all it's all real thoughts and ideas that Casteneda had. Many authors wrap their ideas/therories in tales to make them more interesting and more palatable. If you learn from your reading that's great...and what Carlos intended, fiction or not.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: kratomboy]
    #4162794 - 05/11/05 06:48 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

From an interview with the infamous C.C.

If you could do it over again, would you "just say no"?

My path has been my path. Don Juan always told me, "Make a gesture." A gesture is nothing more than a deliberate act undertaken for the power that comes from making a decision. Ultimately, the value of entering a nonordinary state, as you do with peyote or other psychotropic plants, is to exact what you need in order to embrace the stupendous character of ordinary reality. You see, the path of the heart is not a road of incessant introspection or mystical flight, but a way of engaging the joys and sorrows of the world. This world, where each one of us is related at molecular levels to every other wondrous and dynamic manifestation of being -- this world is the warrior's true hunting ground.

:heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: Icelander]
    #4162809 - 05/11/05 06:54 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Thats truly excellent :heart:

I loved the casteneda books :heart:

They all seemed mystically vague to me, but entertaining with interesting spiritual messages interwoven into the fabric.  :thumbup:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: egghead1]
    #4164221 - 05/12/05 12:15 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I am in a wheelchair for life after jumping off a cliff as outlined in the books. :frown:

I can hardly wait to try Jimson Weed next...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: Swami]
    #4164229 - 05/12/05 12:16 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If you followed the guidelines in Tales of Power you would not have survived...2000ft or so. My oldest brother did the Jimson weed thing. He weirded out and I ended up babysitting...and I MEAN babysitting for the next 12 hours.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineNomad
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: kratomboy]
    #4165229 - 05/12/05 04:40 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The first book is real, and all others are fake. I know that, even though I didn't even read anything except the first book and the first half of the second book. :smirk:

The style of the second book seems to be much more commercial than that of the first. The first book is also internally consistent. For example, it is made clear in the first book that the mushroom ingredient in the mixture is not to be smoked, but the powder goes through the pipe into your mouth, without being actually burned. As far as I remember, the second book then claims that it is actually smoked (and in the second book, Castaneda is also certain that it is a psilocybin mushroom - that is left as an open issue in the first book). Ever tried smoking psilocybin? What a waste of time.

Great books from a buddhist point of view, regardless of authenticity.


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Offlineemptywisdom
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: Nomad]
    #4165271 - 05/12/05 05:33 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If those books are fake then Castaneda deserves credit for being the single greatest mind of all time in the history of fictional writing.

Simply put, If he just "made all that shit up" then he displayed the single greatest imagination and cohesive direction in the history of fiction.

I don't find this to be likely.

Even though it is common to believe these are fiction, primarily because of the scope of what they are about, it's harder for me to believe that anyone, Castaneda himself especially, is a great enough literary mind to make this shit up. Not that the idea itself is to hard to manifest, but the details and wisdom that are presented throughout the books....No way in fucking hell he made that up from the top of his head. No average Joe Like Castaneda has that kind of wisdom and knowledge.

Alot of the stuff from those books are quite applicable to daily life, whether you decide to go head deep and dissolve your personal history or not (I have and still am considering doing this).

I have taken alot from these books. And yes, I do apply much of this wisdom to my everyday life and the direction I choose to send it in.

No way could this have been absolute fiction.
If Carlos himself came out and said he made every bit of this stuff up, I would not believe him, simply because the depth and scope of all of this is too much for any writer to create. This wisdom, even for an incredibly knowledgeable anthropologist, which he was not, is too much to make up.


:heart:


--------------------


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Offlineemptywisdom
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: Nomad]
    #4165274 - 05/12/05 05:40 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nomad said:
The first book is real, and all others are fake. I know that, even though I didn't even read anything except the first book and the first half of the second book. :smirk:.





What a bunch of ridiculous shit. Please.

More commercial? maybe you should actually read them before making this distinction. Because it's quite ludicrous, actually.


Oh, and for swami, I've done a fuck load of datura. I've ate it, smoked it, made tea with it, even snorted the crushed dried flower. I've done alot with this plant. It's never pleasant, but it can be done and can yield positive effects. I'm not dead, obviously. I do not suggest it to anyone, but it's beneficial use is  not out of the realms of possibility.

:heart:


--------------------


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: emptywisdom]
    #4165323 - 05/12/05 07:01 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I don't find this to be likely.

Let's look at this objectively. There are several hundred thousand works of fiction. Some will have to better than the rest. True so far?

People being in two places at once? None verified.

People jumping off high cliffs onto land uninjured without equipment? None verified.

People turning into crows? None verified.

People teleporting? None verified.

And so on. How can you come to the conclusion that putting imaginative ideas on paper is less likely?  I guess the Illiad must be true also because it was too cool a story. :rolleyes:

Note: time for another course on basic logic, folks.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineNomad
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: emptywisdom]
    #4165393 - 05/12/05 08:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

maybe you should actually read them before making this distinction.

Um, yeah, I guess I should do that. I was impressed with the first book and could not imagine that that was a hoax. The first part of the second book was a little disappointing, but I am obviously jumping to conclusions.

Oh, and for swami, I've done a fuck load of datura. I've ate it, smoked it, made tea with it, even snorted the crushed dried flower. I've done alot with this plant.

Did you smoke psilocybin?


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OfflineNomad
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: Swami]
    #4165399 - 05/12/05 08:25 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

People being in two places at once? None verified.

People jumping off high cliffs onto land uninjured without equipment? None verified.

People turning into crows? None verified.

People teleporting? None verified.


At least in the first book, the ontological status of these experiences is left open. Neither Castaneda nor Don Juan claim that turning into a crow occurs within the consensus reality, that this can be watched by other people. The conclusion in the first book seems to be that these incidents take place neither in objective reality (as you claim), nor are purely subjective (as in a dream), but on some undefined third level.


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Offlinekratomboy
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: Nomad]
    #4165443 - 05/12/05 08:50 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Although it is left quite vague, my impression is that it was the double, the "other", the light body, etc. that was doing most of the extraordinary acts.

Also, I think I remember hearing somewhere that there is a way to smoke mushrooms. (a trip reports on erowid if I remember correctly). Also, it should be taken into consideration that there are other species of mushrooms that are psychotropic and from what I remember reading, it was more of a guess that the plants were from the PC family.


--------------------
:kodama:"We must see that consciousness is neither an isolated soul nor the mere function of a single nervous system, but of that totality of interrelated stars and galaxies which makes a nervous system possible."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Castaneda... [Re: emptywisdom]
    #4165725 - 05/12/05 10:57 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

emptywisdom said:
If those books are fake then Castaneda deserves credit for being the single greatest mind of all time in the history of fictional writing.

Simply put, If he just "made all that shit up" then he displayed the single greatest imagination and cohesive direction in the history of fiction.

I don't find this to be likely.

Even though it is common to believe these are fiction, primarily because of the scope of what they are about, it's harder for me to believe that anyone, Castaneda himself especially, is a great enough literary mind to make this shit up. Not that the idea itself is to hard to manifest, but the details and wisdom that are presented throughout the books....No way in fucking hell he made that up from the top of his head. No average Joe Like Castaneda has that kind of wisdom and knowledge.

Alot of the stuff from those books are quite applicable to daily life, whether you decide to go head deep and dissolve your personal history or not (I have and still am considering doing this).

I have taken alot from these books. And yes, I do apply much of this wisdom to my everyday life and the direction I choose to send it in.

No way could this have been absolute fiction.
If Carlos himself came out and said he made every bit of this stuff up, I would not believe him, simply because the depth and scope of all of this is too much for any writer to create. This wisdom, even for an incredibly knowledgeable anthropologist, which he was not, is too much to make up.


:heart:




I think you are right here. I think the concepts are good and many of them work. I use many of them. All the rest are tales of power to me, and I have no way of judging them. I don't know what sorcerers are capable of, not being one. He could have made most of that up to get his philosopical ideas across, which are sound in my book.  :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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