Home | Community | Message Board


High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Seeds Store Cannabis Seeds   Amazon Herb Grinder

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
What is good? What is bad?
    #4146336 - 05/07/05 02:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Seeing as how these two terms are so frequently tossed around this area of the forums... I thought it would be a good idea to have a clear definition as to what truly is good, and what is truly bad in a more definitive general stance.

Any ideas for general definitions that anyone would accept are welcome. I'm not thinking in terms of morality, but what is good/bad in respects to situations, and why it is percieved as such.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4146470 - 05/07/05 03:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It depends on the chosen direction. That is all. It is exactly like a map. When you are heading for Monterey, all the roads which leads to Monterey are good choices. So where you want to go? *tax running* :wink:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: dorkus]
    #4146501 - 05/07/05 03:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

:smile:

Still not much of a precise definition though. I'm looking for an objective definition, yet is based on subjectivty in regards to the outcome of the thought regarding good/bad. As more often then not, we refer to that which is good/bad in this forum, although it's relatively meaningless as it's implication is reliant on subjective factors of the good/bad.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleMovingTarget

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 4,824
Loc: temporary
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: dorkus]
    #4146522 - 05/07/05 03:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Good and bad exists no where outside of our minds.

How many times have you seenm a good act done for no other reason that the praise. Even anonymous good acts will make the culprit feel better.


--------------------



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4146553 - 05/07/05 03:13 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Silly question.  :grin: The only thing I can say is, I am good and you are... :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4146565 - 05/07/05 03:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

And on a less serious note :grin: You would have to know the mind of the universe and all that is, to answer that question. Too many variables for the finite mind. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: MovingTarget]
    #4146601 - 05/07/05 03:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Exactly. That's why it is relative to how you want to feel? We are egoistical beings, but it seems like this playground is fixed so our selfish needs are best met in sowing ie ganja-seeds if ganja is what one wishes to harvest (both external and internal) :grin: So we use the map-metaphor, right?

That is why we can use good and bad in non-duality. We define extremes through selecting preferences and try to keep in the middle of our own channels/tunnels.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: dorkus]
    #4146730 - 05/07/05 03:42 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well, first of all, good and bad only arise from the human mind, and nowhere else. For example you can't say that a lion killing its prey is bad, because there was no morality involved in the act, and good vs. bad is a question of morality, which is purely human. Therefore, good or bad can only come from humans themselves, given that there are others around to judge if one's actions are good or bad.

Now, the hard thing, and quite unnescessary if you ask me, is to find out if one's judgement of what's good or what's bad is a reasonable judgement. In the absolute, it's impossible to find out.

With that in mind, I think that the closest you can come to figuring out if something is good or bad, is to ask yourself.."What if everyone acted that way, would it have a positive outcome or a negative one?".

This way, you can rationaly come to the conclusion that throwing trash out of your car's window is something bad, because if everyone did the same thing, the result would be catastrophic...


You reminded me of a little Zen story that describes how its really hard to tell good from bad, and how one shouldn't be so quick at making a judgement. Check out new posts...


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4146746 - 05/07/05 03:44 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup: that's more in the lines of what I'm looking for.

Of course the human element is necessary in an evaluation of what is good/bad because it solely arises for them. I was just looking for a more definite connotation of both, as often when many use good and bad in this forum, neither is applicable as good/bad aren't applied in a universal way.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4147084 - 05/07/05 04:47 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

This way, you can rationaly come to the conclusion that throwing trash out of your car's window is something bad, because if everyone did the same thing, the result would be catastrophic...

____________________________________________________________________

But all that trash could sop up all the nuclear waste seeping up from underground. :rolleyes:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4147183 - 05/07/05 05:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Seeing as how these two terms are so frequently tossed around this area of the forums... I thought it would be a good idea to have a clear definition as to what truly is good, and what is truly bad in a more definitive general stance.

Any ideas for general definitions that anyone would accept are welcome. I'm not thinking in terms of morality, but what is good/bad in respects to situations, and why it is percieved as such.




good and bad has everything to do with society and human interactions, as well as interaction with everything else that is living

Good leads to planetary wide (for now) social harmony, and bad leads to social conflict, pain and destruction

Harmony is good because everyone benefits, conflict is bad becase some benefit only

Morality is all about wheather ones actions and ways could be used as global planetary everyday practice and how would such habits influence harmony and growth, both material, natural, ecological, intellectual, spiritual etc.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4147208 - 05/07/05 05:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Well, first of all, good and bad only arise from the human mind, and nowhere else. For example you can't say that a lion killing its prey is bad, because there was no morality involved in the act, and good vs. bad is a question of morality, which is purely human. Therefore, good or bad can only come from humans themselves, given that there are others around to judge if one's actions are good or bad.

Now, the hard thing, and quite unnescessary if you ask me, is to find out if one's judgement of what's good or what's bad is a reasonable judgement. In the absolute, it's impossible to find out.

With that in mind, I think that the closest you can come to figuring out if something is good or bad, is to ask yourself.."What if everyone acted that way, would it have a positive outcome or a negative one?".

This way, you can rationaly come to the conclusion that throwing trash out of your car's window is something bad, because if everyone did the same thing, the result would be catastrophic...


You reminded me of a little Zen story that describes how its really hard to tell good from bad, and how one shouldn't be so quick at making a judgement. Check out new posts...




A lion is no different from a meat grinder, it is a beast that does its stuff with no mind to it, it does not have any flexibility nor does it know what it is doing, same goes for its prays
what you see is not a murder, but a dance of flesh machines
In society murder is possible because one has the choice not to do it unless his biology dictates it (strong injections of hormons, passion crime, insanity)


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4147259 - 05/07/05 05:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

exactly, except biology doesn't dictate anyone, unless one is mentally disabled or something. Otherwise, you always have a choice...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4147280 - 05/07/05 05:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
exactly, except biology doesn't dictate anyone, unless one is mentally disabled or something. Otherwise, you always have a choice...




not always, as some say "everyone has a price" (i dissagree by the way) I say "everyone has a dose"

I put enough hormones into your blood you will be on a killing spree

Maybe you'd get a heart attack before you got to kill anyone, but
the wish to do it would have to appear


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4147281 - 05/07/05 05:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
exactly, except biology doesn't dictate anyone, unless one is mentally disabled or something. Otherwise, you always have a choice...




not always, as some say "everyone has a price" (i dissagree by the way) I say "everyone has a dose"

I put enough hormones into your blood you will be on a killing spree

Maybe you'd get a heart attack before you got to kill anyone, but
the wish to do it would have to appear


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4147305 - 05/07/05 05:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I disagree, if I'm going to go on a killing spree, I'm going to make the choice of doing so. The hormones might have some influence on which choice i make, but in the absolute, I, me, my mind, my spirit whatever, is going to have the final say. Not the hormones.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4147334 - 05/07/05 05:23 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
I disagree, if I'm going to go on a killing spree, I'm going to make the choice of doing so. The hormones might have some influence on which choice i make, but in the absolute, I, me, my mind, my spirit whatever, is going to have the final say. Not the hormones.




oh come one, I'm talking 10% of your blood filled with a liquit telling you: kill him, tear his skin off, eat his eyeballs, make him suffer

your are a semi-automatic weapon, you do have choice but it is limited

you said it yourself that a retard can not control himself, well with enough chemicals you become a retard too

What if I put wires in your spine that control your body movements through nerves, bypassing your conscious mind, well a strong hormonal reaction is no different from that, you, your conscious mind as you know it know is bypassed, you then become that from which you have risen in the first place, an animal with no consciousness of self.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4147354 - 05/07/05 05:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Seeing as how these two terms are so frequently tossed around this area of the forums... I thought it would be a good idea to have a clear definition as to what truly is good, and what is truly bad in a more definitive general stance.

Any ideas for general definitions that anyone would accept are welcome. I'm not thinking in terms of morality, but what is good/bad in respects to situations, and why it is perceived as such.




good and bad has everything to do with society and human interactions, as well as interaction with everything else that is living

Good leads to planetary wide (for now) social harmony, and bad leads to social conflict, pain and destruction

Harmony is good because everyone benefits, conflict is bad because some benefit only

Morality is all about whether ones actions and ways could be used as global planetary everyday practice and how would such habits influence harmony and growth, both material, natural, ecological, intellectual, spiritual etc.




Is it possible to give a more definitive answer to the nature of what is good and bad beyond these generalizations?

Or are we indelibly tied to loose definitions who's applications/approaches could be suspected of being the converse provided the consequences aren't the intentions.?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4147379 - 05/07/05 05:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

first, i don't think there exists such a hormone?

then , as you said, i sill have a choice, no matter how limited it is.

If i'm going to become a semi-automatic weapon, that means that i'll give into what these hormones push me to do, that means that i'll go "oh fine, control me, hormones".

I guess that its a question of "power of will" or "self-control" or whatver.

No wire is going to tell my conscious mind what to do. It can ask it or persuade it to do something, but it won't be able to force it.

Humanity's greatest gift is that of free will.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: What is good? What is bad? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4147392 - 05/07/05 05:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know why everyone is expecting some universal definition of good and bad. If you want definition of abstract things such as that, its comming from mans mind. Where else is it supose to come from? Some god that nobody believes in anyway? Or aliens? Or maybe is it supose to be written on stones? Or maybe is it supose to be a vision while on an acid trip?

good and bad and morality are things that concern people and people only, so they come out of peoples minds


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Seeds Store Cannabis Seeds   Amazon Herb Grinder

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Herd Manipulation
( 1 2 all )
Sclorch 1,780 28 04/14/04 04:41 PM
by Grav
* The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness II Huehuecoyotl 1,316 15 05/16/06 11:09 AM
by Icelander
* Do we place too much trust in scientists and doctors?
( 1 2 3 all )
SneezingPenis
3,772 49 07/28/06 02:54 PM
by tallgreen
* Bad Philosophy Is Inconsistent
( 1 2 3 4 all )
SkorpivoMusterion 6,189 72 02/16/06 09:20 PM
by SkorpivoMusterion
* Gene Manipulation Droz 1,183 11 10/23/06 12:25 AM
by daytripper23
* Doctor Kevorkian
( 1 2 3 all )
uriahchase 2,040 55 07/07/05 03:33 AM
by SneezingPenis
* energy manipulation while tripping. truekimbo2 1,357 12 04/13/04 03:19 AM
by truekimbo2
* Reincarnation and Monopoly Icelander 997 13 03/29/07 10:35 AM
by Icelander

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,216 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
SoulSpeciosa Kratom
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.04 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 21 queries.