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OfflineMuppet
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I hate 'problem solvers'
    #4145335 - 05/07/05 10:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

There's a certain 'mentality' where people have this inscessive need to do whatever they can to make the world a 'better' place. They continually go about 'doing the right thing' because of the sort of reactions they get from other people for doing what's apparently 'right'

Consider, if you will, when authority figures provide positive re-inforcement for turning in someone who's doing something they're not supposed to be doing. This type of behavior will encorage the ignorant to step in and fuck shit up for people who may be doing something 'wrong' yet still have a very legitamate reason for their actions (par exampla: when people smoke a little pot to calm em down, so they don't blow up at someone they're considering taking a fucken gun to)

People who are ignorant of why this supposedly 'evil' deed is being carried out, will likely jump to the occassion to contact the authorities about this wrong-doer...apparently because it gives them the feeling that their interraction will somehow or another make things 'better' for everyone on the whole.

...BUT...

It seems to me that it's this is the exact sort of thing that pushes people to the extreme. If people know they're going to face severe penalties for doing something they feel they have to do, chances are thy're going to go out of their way to make damn well sure word never gets out about their wrong doing (which may include silencing the person who's putting em at risk, if need be)

Consider, if you will, someone that simply wants to rob a store so they can pay off a loan shark who wants to break their legs or some shit. The robber likely doesn't want to have to resort to actually using whatever weapon they happen to be weilding - they just want to get the money they need and get the fuck out of there. But because they know that that clerk is going to have to call the cops the second he leaves - the robber now has no other choice but to kill the fucker, snatch the security tape, and prey to god eye witness accounts won't give the cops enough information to track em down when they do finally happen to stumble across their wrong doing.

That whole 'doing the right thing' mentality often leads people to overlook the reasons behind the wrong-doing...and as such...puts the wrong-doer in a position where they now have to do even more wrong in order to cover their own ass and prevent farther reprocussions from comming their way.

in short:

this whole 'problem solver' mentality creates more problems then it solves





People are trying to do what's best for the greater good by putting an end to any sort of 'problem' they happen to come across...but all they ever seem to do is perpetuate even larger problems by not giving people the opportunity to finish whatever wrong-doing it is they feel they have to do and leaving em with an escape so they can then put this whole messy situation behind em.


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


Edited by Muppet (05/07/05 10:21 AM)


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4145348 - 05/07/05 10:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

but obviously you can't just instill chaotic law and let everybody run around taking care of their own problems their damn self, cause all that would do is take us all right back to the caveman days where he who has has the most power makes the fucken rules (and as such - those who can't defend themselves get royally fucked by anyone larger or better armed)

so this may just be one of those 'lesser of two evil' sorta things...






I still don't likes it though  :tongue:


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4145350 - 05/07/05 10:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, go smoke your bong some more, that's way easier than trying to improve the world.


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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4145365 - 05/07/05 10:25 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

making 'improvements' shouldn't make shit worse  :tongue:


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4145393 - 05/07/05 10:41 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Sometimes people just intellectualize things too much. I know sometimes when people try to make things better they end up failing in some respects, even making things worse, but you still gotta try.


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4145461 - 05/07/05 11:20 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

even when the vast majority of their attempts result in additional problems that need to be solved?  :what:






Consider, if you will, someone that is being given shit about eating the occasional twinkie while on a strict diet. The purpose of these sporadic indulgences is to give the person on the diet a little more strength to deal with the fact that they're 'forced' to eat cardboard-tasting crap day in and day out, without ever being given the opportunity to enjoy what they're putting into their body. In short - the diet becomes a sort of living hell for them, and their only crutch for being able to rough it out is being taken away by people genuinely wanting to 'help'

The end result is someone that gets tired of everyone coming down on em for the occasional splurge to such an extent that they give up on the diet all together and likely will just accept the fact that they're going to be a freaken moo-cow for the rest of their life, and not even bother attempting to eat at least somewhat reasonably (for the immediate future anyway)

Peoples attempts to assist in breaking that bad habit generally result in pushing the envelope too far and bringing the person to a point where they no longer care about whatever it was they were trying to accomplish in the first place, and resort back to whatever it was they were attempting to 'solve' themselves.

If you don't understand the gestalt of the situation - any 'help' you give will indubitably be help that isn't suited for the situation at hand...simply because it's based off of an incomplete perception of said situation


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4145479 - 05/07/05 11:28 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If someone is adhering to a strict diet and only eats something sugary or fatty once a day, or once a week, or something infrequent then it's unlikely that someone critical is going to be watching at that moment they are indulging themselves. If someone critical does happen to be watching and chastizes them for eating that twinkie then the person on a diet is more likely to make sure to enjoy that twinky in privacy next time. I don't mean to just pick apart this example instead of your idea but I mean of course there's a correlation between how much background a samaritan has on a situation and how successful they're going to be in improving it. That seems obvious to me. Is that all you're trying to say?


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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs


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OfflineniCCa
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4145500 - 05/07/05 11:37 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

best is not to post any woes/problems here then
\m/


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Heaveno...CU CU CU CU CU in the Highway...Peace


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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4145501 - 05/07/05 11:37 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It's not about right and wrong but about order, a repression of freedom some find necessary to get us through this dangerous time

So if the state says don't eat chocolate ice crea just because it is in the law, those who believe in order are going to report you about eating such icecream, becase it's not about the ice cream, or pot or anything, its about being controlable


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4145515 - 05/07/05 11:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

pretty much, yeah...



but more specifically - the sort of people that constantly feel the need to fix shit, typically don't have the capacity to fix a lot of the stuff they're attempting to 'fix' in the first place...and that people in general should be more willing to step aside when they see something that might potentially be beyond their abilities, in order to leave the job for someone a bit more qualified

everyone seems so quick to jump right in to help though, that often times they don't even bother considering whether or not their 'help' is actually going to be beneficial or not...and it's that immediate jumping into action mentality that I'm whining about


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4145535 - 05/07/05 12:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well sometimes people try to help who aren't qualified to help.
Sometimes people try to help who are qualified to help.

people just gotta try harder. sorry I don't have anything smart to contribute.


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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs


Edited by question_for_joo (05/07/05 12:11 PM)


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Invisibletoad857
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4145590 - 05/07/05 12:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

A few days ago I was thinking about war and I got pretty upset. I made myself write this down when I thought of it:

"Advice to myself:
As for soliders who are off fighting for a cause you don?t believe in? whether they be US soldiers in Iraq or terrorists elsewhere or Japanese military men during World War 2, you must always be able to give them the respect they deserve for fighting for what they believe in--which is often more than I can say for myself."


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4145609 - 05/07/05 12:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

you make a good point there OldWoodSpecter



it seems as though the need to preserve one's way of doing things certainly plays a role in this same mentality too...especially if the need to impose that same 'structure' on others is inherent


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4145642 - 05/07/05 12:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"when authority figures provide positive re-inforcement for turning in someone who's doing something they're not supposed to be doing."

So we should let murder and theft slide in order to "be cool".

"his type of behavior will encourage the ignorant to step in and fuck shit up for people who may be doing something 'wrong' yet still have a very legitimate reason for their actions"

Even serial killers have their "reasons".

The reasoning behind this is flawed to an idiotic extreme. You are encouraging people to allow others to treat them in a shameful manner. Our society has standards for behavior in order to protect the rights of it's members. I have reservations of my own concerning some of our laws, but to lay out a generalization like that makes no sense and it is not realistic. Go back to getting stoned and quit worrying about "The Man". I am sure your inaction in regard to society's problems will have a tremendous impact.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4145687 - 05/07/05 12:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

apparently you missed my second post  :tongue:




I never said that my 'mentality' was a good one...only that it prevents pushing people past their breaking point


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4145698 - 05/07/05 12:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I read it. It was poorly expressed and the mentality you convey is ill thought out.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4146160 - 05/07/05 02:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Real problem solvers aren't something to be fucked with :smile: nothing bad about them, unless the problem is someones gain, and is a solution to them (monetarily)... if that's the case, screw them anyhow.

I think the issue lies in motivation. What motivates someone to feel so strongly about an issue, what's the motivation to rectify a situation?

Money? greed? Altruism? Ego-inflation?


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4146168 - 05/07/05 02:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:

I agree. I think most people in high governmentla positions are ill qualified for their jobs.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4146369 - 05/07/05 02:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

motivation certainly plays a role here too, but even someone with the purest motivation can still unintentionally cause some real problems if they don't understand enough about the situation to know what is a feasible 'solution' (or if what they're precieving as a 'problem' truely is something to be concerned about, for that matter)


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: I hate 'problem solvers' [Re: Muppet]
    #4146468 - 05/07/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:yesnod: and hence they aren't problem solvers, right?

Solving a problem only to create one of equal value isn't much of a solution.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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