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Offlinetomk
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Registered: 09/22/04
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Last seen: 9 months, 3 days
How to respond to a suicidal person * 2
    #4144824 - 05/07/05 03:19 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Make this sticky.

I think a lot of shroomerites are suicidal.  I also think a lot of shroomerites (myself included) do not know how to deal with a suicidal person very well.  Giving advice you think is good because of folk psychology may contribute to someone making a suicide attempt.  So, let me present some cited FACTS about what saves life when dealing with a suicidal person.  I plagerize freely from the sources I list at the bottom.  We love our suicidal friends, even though they have problems.  Let's make sure that the advice we give to other people is going to help them stay alive.  :thumbup:

"If someone is feeling depressed or suicidal, our first response is to try to help. We offer advice, share our own experiences, try to find solutions.

We'd do better to be quiet and listen. People who feel suicidal don't want answers or solutions. They want a safe place to express their fears and anxieties, to be themselves.

Listening - really listening - is not easy. We must control the urge to say something - to make a comment, add to a story or offer advice. We need to listen not just to the facts that the person is telling us but to the feelings that lie behind them. We need to understand things from their perspective, not ours."

"What do people who feel suicidal not want?

To be alone. Rejection can make the problem seem ten times worse. Having someone to turn to makes all the difference. Just listen.

To be advised. Lectures don't help. Nor does a suggestion to "cheer up", or an easy assurance that "everything will be okay." Don't analyze, compare, categorize or criticize. Just listen.

To be interrogated. Don't change the subject, don't pity or patronize. Talking about feelings is difficult. People who feel suicidal don't want to be rushed or put on the defensive."

"One of the most frightening experiences a person can have is hearing a friend or loved one say they want to die. Even to hear a complete stranger say these words is hard. Each day in our chat room and forum, there are dozens of pleas for help. How can one cope and try to maintain one's own sanity? Here are some tips I have gathered from various sources and from personal experience.

1. There are no right or wrong things you can say if you are speaking out of love and concern. Just be yourself. Show that you care by talking to them, holding them while they cry, or whatever else is necessary.

2. A suicidal person usually is carrying around some burden that they feel they just can't handle anymore. Offer to listen as they vent their feelings of despair, anger and loneliness.

3. Be sympathetic, non-judgmental, patient, calm, accepting. The person will pick up on your attitude and begin to mirror this.

4. Don't be afraid to ask, "Are you having thoughts of suicide?" You are not putting ideas in their head. This will give you some valuable information about how to proceed in helping him.

5. If the answer is yes, ask these three questions:

Have you thought about how you would do it?
Do you have what you need to carry out your plan?
Do you know when you will do it?

Fortunately the majority of people will either say that they have no definite plans or that they don't have the nerve to do it themselves. Although this is still a serious situation, you know that they are probably not in imminent danger of hurting themselves. Take their words as a plea for help and proceed with helping them to get the assistance that they need. Urge them to seek professional help as soon as possible.

If the answers they give you lead you to believe they are in immediate danger, do not hesitate to contact the authorities. They may tell you that you are betraying them or making them angry. You may feel like you will lose their friendship if you take action. Just remember that you may permanently lose their friendship if you don't. When they're well again, they will thank you.

6. Keep them talking. This will allow them to reduce the emotional burden they are carrying. and give them time to calm down. The longer you keep them talking, the more you can take the edge off their desperation. As their momentum winds down, it's harder for them to act on their feelings.

7. Avoid trying to offer quick solutions or belittling the persons feelings. How big he perceives the problem to be and how much he is hurting over it is what counts. Rational arguments do little good to persuade a person when they are in this state of mind. Instead offer your empathy and compassion for what he is feeling without making any judgments about whether he should feel that way.

8. If the person has already started a suicide attempt, call for help immediately. If they are still conscious, get what information you can about what substances they have ingested, how long ago did they ingest them, how much did they take, are they also consuming alcohol, when did they last eat, what is the general state of their health. Call 911, Poison Control, or an appropriate emergency contact number in your area and explain the situation. Keep calm and follow any steps they may give you to assist your friend.

9. If you are in a situation--such as an online friendship--where you know very little about the person, encourage them to call 911 on their own or to call a suicide hotline in their area.. This is your best option, because a local agency such as 911 or a hotline may be able to trace the call and get assistance to them. If they refuse to call, do your best to learn whatever personal information you can about the person. Don't hesitate to ask them for their address, phone number, and other information to help dispatch an emergency crew to their home. Ask for the same information in item #9 as well.

10. Dealing with a suicide threat is very stressful. Seek assistance to decompress afterwards. Talk to a trusted friend, your pastor, etc. about what you've been through and how you feel about it.

11. If all your attempts fail, don't blame yourself. You did all that you could. This person ultimately made their own choices, for good or bad. If you were very close to the person, it may be wise to seek out grief counseling and suicide survivor support groups."

"If you see the warning signs of suicide?

Begin a dialogue by asking questions. Suicidal thoughts are common with depressive illnesses and your willingness to talk about it in a nonjudgmental way can be the push a person needs to get help. Questions to ask:

?Do you ever feel so badly that you think of suicide??

?Do you have a plan??

?Do you know when you would do it (today, next week)?"

?Do you have access to what you would use??

Asking these questions will allow you to determine if your friend is in immediate danger, and get help if needed. A suicidal person should see a doctor or psychiatrist immediately. Calling 911 or going to a hospital emergency room are valid options. Always take thoughts of or plans for suicide seriously.

Never keep a plan for suicide a secret. Don?t worry about endangering a friendship if you truly feel a life is in danger. It's better to regret something you did, than something you didn't do to help a friend.

Don't try to minimize problems or shame a person into changing her mind. Your opinion of a person's situation is irrelevant. Trying to convince a person it's not that bad, or that she has everything to live for will only increase her feelings of guilt and hopelessness. Reassure her help is available, that depression is treatable, and that suicidal feelings are temporary.

If you feel the person isn't in immediate danger, acknowledge the pain as legitimate and offer to work together to get help. Make sure you follow through. This is one instance where you must be tenacious in your follow-up. Help find a doctor or a mental health professional, participate in making the first phone call, or go along to the first appointment. If you're in a position to help, don't assume that your persistence is unwanted or intrusive. Risking your feelings to help save a life is a risk worth taking."

"The following are common misconceptions about Suicide

"People who talk about suicide won't really do it."

Not True
Almost everyone who commits or attempts suicide has given some clue or warning. Do not ignore suicide threats. Statements like "you'll be sorry when I'm dead," "I can't see any way out," -- no matter how casually or jokingly said may indicate serious suicidal feelings.
 
"Anyone who tries to kill him/herself must be crazy."

Not True
Most suicidal people are not psychotic or insane. They must be upset, grief-stricken, depressed or despairing, but extreme distress and emotional pain are not necessarily signs of mental illness.
 
"If a person is determined to kill him/herself, nothing is going to stop him/her."

Not True
Even the most severely depressed person has mixed feelings about death, wavering until the very last moment between wanting to live and wanting to die. Most suicidal people do not want death; they want the pain to stop. The impulse to end it all, however overpowering, does not last forever.
 
"People who commit suicide are people who were unwilling to seek help."

Not True
Studies of suicide victims have shown that more then half had sought medical help within six month before their deaths.
 
"Talking about suicide may give someone the idea."

Not True
You don't give a suicidal person morbid ideas by talking about suicide. The opposite is true --bringing up the subject of suicide and discussing it openly is one of the most helpful things you can do."

http://www.befrienders.org/suicide/helpfrnd.htm
http://www.save.org/prevention/misconceptions.html
http://depression.about.com/cs/suicideprevent/a/suicidal.htm


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: tomk]
    #4144945 - 05/07/05 04:04 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup: great post tomk.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: tomk]
    #4145156 - 05/07/05 06:44 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Great post.

I think the most important thing to remember is:

If your friend is talking about feeling suicidal, your friend is already doing the right thing... reaching out to others. This is a good sign.

It is the people who keep their suicidal thoughts private... those are the people I worry about most.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineVulture
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: Rose]
    #4153370 - 05/09/05 02:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

great post man. i often fear for my GF. she has very suicidal moments...has tryied to kill herself multiple times in the past. and she is afraid she will do it on her 20th b-day. This Aug 26.

Ive gone through everything you have just mentioned...its true what you say. dont try to argue or undermind them...it will only aplify and make things worse.

My girls needs help...i really dont know who to go to. Anything that costs moeny is out of the questiong because she had no insurance...and neigther on of us has enough money for the help that she needs. She has lots of health problems and htat only makes things worse...she has no way of getting the mdeicine she needs with no isurance and the price of medication these days.

if anyone has any advice please pm me...she is truly lost and i love her more than anything is this world. Im afraid if she wnet through with it i would feel like i have failed and i might do something drastic as well. In not normally depressed or anything...im all love...but if somehting happned to her i could see myself becomming the exact opposite of who i am now...and noone wants that.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
Danger Man

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,264
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: tomk]
    #4153415 - 05/09/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Good article. I've been there and just having someone there for you and to listen means so very much.

Vulture: Have you looked into signing up for your State's Medicaid program? It can pay for counseling, doctors and prescriptions....


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: Vulture]
    #4153446 - 05/09/05 03:08 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

deleted by myself


Edited by mattzdope (05/10/05 07:23 PM)


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 9 months, 3 days
Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4153740 - 05/09/05 04:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbdown:

Suicide is a response to pain.  The suicidal person feels like the only way to get rid of the pain is to end their life.  Remember, the perception of a suicidal person is going to be warped.  From their point of view, they feel like everyone would be better off without them, that they would be better off, since their pain would go away, and that suicide is their best choice for ending their pain.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: tomk]
    #4154169 - 05/09/05 06:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I've emailed the Samaritans twice in my life, actually, both times in the past two years, some tough years...anyway, if you don't know they're the UK's big suicide prevention organization...and they do it for free.

When I e-mail them they never really say anything to me. They just encourage me to talk more. So reading this "how-to" manual with all this stuff about just listening puts that in perspective for me. I always assumed they were told to say as little as possible to avoid any danger of lawsuits. It did help me to just tell a complete stranger who I never heard from again though, sad as it is to admit.


--------------------
youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4154750 - 05/09/05 09:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

No offense to anybody but I think suicide is one of the most selfish things in the world. I have no pity for anybody that threatens or does commit suicide. They are selfish and god or whatever higher being you pray to will punish them.
____________________________________________________________________

Why would someone be offended by someone spouting such ignorant, pathetic sanctimonious unmitigated bullshit. You are a very sick soul and I will be praying for you. :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: Icelander]
    #4155454 - 05/10/05 12:52 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

deleted by myself


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


Edited by mattzdope (05/10/05 07:23 PM)


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Invisiblebudsicle
s?igh?tsee?r

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 232
Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4156351 - 05/10/05 07:51 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

it is easy to call suicide selfish, but after goin thru such a dark stage in life where suicide seemed like reasonable option i won?t, life can be real mindfuck/hell sometimes and i cant really blame any1 for taking that way out.. and its ultimately pretty futile to call people who take their own life selfish, cause afterall its the suicider whos missing all the possible fun there coulda still been waiting for him/her in life


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4156637 - 05/10/05 10:37 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
edited..

I'm sorry if I came off as sounding uncaring.. I have my beliefs you have yours.

In my religion suicide is the ultimate sin.

I find it very selfish unless the person is truly mentally ill (retardation). In that case I have compassion and understanding.

The loved ones and the ones that care about the person are the only people who get hurt on this plane by such a selfish act.

Much love to anybody who has lost somebody as a result to suicide.

I lost my fourth cousin by blood. I blame him for taking the easy way out and hurting his family and his friends. At the end of the day I still pray for him.

Sorry very touchy subject that I will stay out of.

:heart:




1) you are uncaring IMO

2)Keep your religion to yourself.

3)Once again, Bullshit IMO

4) Crap, people decide to be hurt or not, it's a personal choice and no one is making them do anything, or feel anything. That's why people respond to events differently. Grow up and take responsibility and quit blaming the innocent.

5) I wish you would show that with more sensitivity and compassion for the suffering of people you know nothing about.

6) Your attitude is sooo sad. I will continue to pray for you.

7) No one is asking you to stay out. Yeah it's touchy alright. Think hard before you post. We're trying to help people considering suicide. They don't need people telling them their feelings or decisions are not valid or are sinful and worthy of punishment


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: budsicle]
    #4156956 - 05/10/05 12:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

budsicle said:
life can be real mindfuck




That's the truth...when a person reaches a suicidal low, they have a hard time thinking clearly. All the times I've reached that place I was in a very uncontrolled, very scary state of mind. It's like something dark and rotted had taken me over, and I became an entirely different person. That can be a terrible place to be in. It's hard to understand after reaching that point that life is still worth living. I have sympathy for people who are suicidal because I know how it feels to get that low. Your mind starts playing tricks on you, reaffirming the fact with every passing event that it's necessary for you to die. It doesn't matter why a person is feeling suicidal. I think it's important to validate their feelings and let them know that they aren't alone.

I am also not ashamed to admit that I do occasionally get angry when I think of people who have taken their own lives. Anger is a normal emotion for people to feel in response to a suicidal situation and I doubt people who experience it are bad people. It is simply their way of dealing with a tragedy. It's not "right" or "wrong" for anyone to feel anger or resentment after a suicide. You can't validate the feelings of the suicidal person and then invalidate the feelings of someone else just because the thought of suicide is very offensive to them. No feeling ever felt to any human being is invalid. They are all worthy of being felt.

What's important is that we remember we all might be in that dark place one day and need help. We are all human, and we all have the choice to suicide. As Tomk said, the best thing we can do for a suicidal person is listen. If you have a personal bias towards suicide and feel you may not be able to offer adequate support and help towards someone who needs it, then don't respond and make a already volitile situation worse. As said, anger and other negative emotions are perfectly normal reactions to a tragedy, but there is a time and place for you to express them in a healthy way. Suicidal people need our support and love. It's important that they know they will not be judged or condemned by expressing their feelings. Just lending a compassionate and sympathetic ear might save a life.

In the end though, and I strongly believe this, it is up to the suicidal person to make that choice, not anyone else. Only he or she can choose. As people who want to help suicidal people, we invest a lot of emotion and may end up feeling helpless and personally responsible if a person kills themselves. It's important to realize that nobody made that choice but the suicider themselves. We can do what we can, but in the end it is up to them.


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OfflineVulture
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: MOTH]
    #4170646 - 05/13/05 01:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

im truly afraid my gf will end up doing herself in. she gets in these dramatic moods...im always albo t bring her out of them which is good. I think if i stay wil her and just roll witht he punches she will be ok. but its hard. sometime im just tired of dealing with her shit you know?

but i know if i left she would do it. she needs me. and im not fooling anyone...i need her just as bad. im not suicidal or anything...i just love her more that i could ever concive loving anything ever.

if she makes it past her b-day im pretty sure she will be fine. im under a lot of pressure myself tho...i feel like im responsible for keeping her from doing this. i need to go back to school and get a job any all that stuff...under lots of pressure to do that cause she wants kids and wnat to get married and these thing and i need to be able to support her. if you have ever been in a situation like this pm me...i would greatly apreciate to be able to tlak to anyone about this kind of stff that oculd offer me good advice.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: Vulture]
    #4170749 - 05/13/05 02:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

A metaphor that I often use in stopping my co-dependant impulses:
If your loved one fell into quicksand, how could you best help them survive, by jumping in with them, or by finding a piece of firm ground to stand on while you extend a branch? You are not responsible for your girlfriend's suicidal impulses, and your love alone cannot save her. Once you extend the branch, it is up to her whether to grab on and escape the clutches of her emotional quicksand, or to continue to sink.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: tomk]
    #4180850 - 05/16/05 02:24 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i told my friend that i loved him and gave him a big hug till he stoped crying. Now he has been sober a month and has a buisness thats doing very well.


--------------------




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OfflineVulture
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #4181889 - 05/16/05 01:14 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

things are getting crazy. Shes been treating me like shit recently and i just cant take it. So i said something to her about it...next thing you know her dads fussing at her about some shit...and she goes for the gun. DAMN i had to physically stop her from doing the shit several times...never seen her actually grab the gun but she like to take the belt and choke herself. Everyone around her is completely blind to the help she needs. i think her dad is just to used to it by now cause it been going on since she was little.

her mom used to beat her and look her strait in the eye while chocking her and tell her she was the worste mistake she ever made. wouldent feed her...shes been raped several times by severeal people...her virginity was taken by date rape. Her former fiance died almost exatly a year ago. And she just had an abortion.

things are quite ruff.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: Vulture]
    #4182592 - 05/16/05 04:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I would suggest you urge her to get help immediantly.  She has to want it, though.

Sorry things are tough.  :heart:


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OfflineKrazie_t
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Registered: 05/16/05
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: tomk]
    #4183299 - 05/16/05 07:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That post was deep :smile:


--------------------
I dont fight, I dont argue, I just whoop that fuckers ass w/ a bottle.


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OfflineVulture
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Re: How to respond to a suicidal person [Re: Krazie_t]
    #4185029 - 05/17/05 03:09 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

oh she wants it more than anything. we jsut dont know where to go really...not being able to afford a goos therapistand all. She lives with her dad and he makes over 30,000 a year so she doesent quilify for medicaid.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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