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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Millions of years of evolution
    #4144027 - 05/06/05 10:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

followed by millenia of study and learning, and the world is still gripped by superstition and irrationality as evidenced daily on this forum. This does not bode well for our future.

Is this due to TV, junk food, pure mental laziness, enculturation or poor genetics?

Thinking is STILL allowed!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4144038 - 05/06/05 10:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Have you considered that superstition might possibly serve some evolutionary function?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4144041 - 05/06/05 10:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

You were planning on a future. :grin: :thumbdown:

Most of humanity doesn't even have a present. :crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Silversoul]
    #4144055 - 05/06/05 10:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Considered and discarded.

Many diseases were wiped out (or at least highly constrained) due to serious study and research; not by ringing bells, lighting candles and praying to our ancestors.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4144065 - 05/06/05 10:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup: My family has a black cat, the damn thing needs to stay inside on Halloween.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

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Posts: 93,974
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4144083 - 05/06/05 10:45 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
followed by millenia of study and learning, and the world is still gripped by superstition and irrationality as evidenced daily on this forum. This does not bode well for our future.

Is this due to TV, junk food, pure mental laziness, enculturation or poor genetics?




YES! :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4144992 - 05/07/05 04:23 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Is this due to TV, junk food, pure mental laziness, enculturation or poor genetics?



No, it's due to the fact that most people prefer to focus on living instead of objective knowledge. They do not share your passion. Does that make them inferior?

Face it, rationality is a luxury Occidental people can afford, but (at least) two thirds of the global population have more pressing concerns.

To me, the Art of Life is more important the Truth. Perhaps I have drawn different rational conclusions than you have, but who are you to judge?


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Edited by Alan Stone (05/07/05 04:25 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4145007 - 05/07/05 04:33 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

No, it's due to the fact that most people prefer to focus on living instead of objective knowledge.
False dichotomy. Rationality INCREASES the quality of life.

Face it, rationality is a luxury Occidental people can afford, but (at least) two thirds of the global population have more pressing concerns.
Understanding agriculture yields better results than sacrificing an animal to the fertility gods.

To me, the Art of Life is more important the Truth.
Too vague to properly respond to.

Perhaps I have drawn different rational conclusions than you have, but who are you to judge?
I am judging that you are communicating through a deviced based SOLELY on logic.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4145071 - 05/07/05 05:36 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

False dichotomy. Rationality INCREASES the quality of life.



Quality is a subjective thing, so no objective statements can be made about it, including that one.

Moving on to the old 'computers r0x0rz' argument...

Interesting you should mention it again and again. Think not of the device we use to communicate here (which IS based on logic itself, no one will say otherwise). Think about what we're communicating. What we are doing here is pondering existence, which is irrational in itself. Objectively, raising philosophical questions is inherently pointless.

Now I ask YOU, why do YOU engage in irrational behavior, if you say you only care about rationality? Could it be because we, as humans, are all irrational to a certain degree?

If that is the case, which I contend it is, I think we should come to terms with it, instead of trying to kill it.
I'll deduce this for you, nice and logical, like.

- We all die.
- We don't come back after we die, at least not here in this form, of that much we are certain.
- Time is ticking away
- Time fighting is time that could have been spent on other things

==> so why fight yourself or others when you can enjoy the time you have been granted?

Loving, praying, painting, making music, savouring then moment (all irrational things) aren't harmful. They're even inherently useless yet inherently meaningful things to do.
Sacrificial slaughter, smoking, driving at 120+ mph in your sports car... are all irrational things that could be harmful to yourself and/or others. However, there is no and will be no information campaign powerful enough to stop people from doing these things.

Sometimes, a benefit-cost analysis of your actions can be useful, but if you do them all the time you're spending more time in your head than in real life, which again consumes time neither of us has.

Quote:

Too vague to properly respond to.



Cleared up?


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4145089 - 05/07/05 05:48 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Cleared up?

No. You have labeled things as irrational which aren't. Seems you like to confuse words and concepts to make your points.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4145096 - 05/07/05 05:50 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You have labeled things as irrational which aren't. Seems you like to confuse words and concepts to make your points.



Seems you like to berate people to feel superior. Please be more specific.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4145111 - 05/07/05 06:03 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Berate? Why the emotional content and judgement? Your statements contained errors. That has nothing to with me. When you give someone the wrong change and they correct you; do you also take it personally?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4145117 - 05/07/05 06:09 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Imagine my embaressment. As you might know, english is not my native tongue, so misnomers will occur. I thought "berate" could serve as a slighly more emphatic synonym for "criticise". My bad.

Edit: You haven't clarified which erroneous examples I've used. I used "irrational" as "not guided by solid judgement".


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Edited by Alan Stone (05/07/05 06:11 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4145127 - 05/07/05 06:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

There is a huge difference between non-rational and irrational.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4145129 - 05/07/05 06:21 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
Quality is a subjective thing, so no objective statements can be made about it, including that one.




Quality is not merely a subjective thing in this regard. Conditions that are required for life in the first place contribute to one's quality of life. That is, poisoned, brown water is not going to provide for more quality of life than clear, contaminant-free, spring water, straight from the source. We could tell ourselves that the thick, black smog surrounding us actually increases the quality of our life, as quality of life is merely a subjective thing, but then we wouldn't be thinking very rationally, now would we? :lol:

Quote:


What we are doing here is pondering existence, which is irrational in itself. Objectively, raising philosophical questions is inherently pointless.




:shocked: Actually, there is no inherent meaning, and I fail to see the reasoning behind your labeling "pondering existance" as irrational. Apparently it is not a rational thing to understand, or to attempt to understand, the act that you are carrying out? :lol: Apparently scientists studying physics are acting irrationally, just as the naturalists studying animal life are. :smirk:

Quote:


Now I ask YOU, why do YOU engage in irrational behavior, if you say you only care about rationality? Could it be because we, as humans, are all irrational to a certain degree?




Perhaps it is simply that you are irrational, and that you project your image of yourself onto others... :grin:

Quote:


I'll deduce this for you, nice and logical, like.

- We all die.




Perhaps.

Quote:


- We don't come back after we die, at least not here in this form, of that much we are certain.




:lol: We're certain of that, eh? Seems like a baseless contention to me.

Quote:


- Time is ticking away




There exists beyond our simple intuition, based on directly observable traits of our environment, a universe beyond our understanding. I've heard much suggested about the possibillity of more spatial dimensions, and there is always the possibillity, although it would be difficult for us to understand without the direct experience, of extra time dimensions.

I don't propose to understand the mechanics of time, and regardless, I don't see what this statement contributes...

Quote:


- Time fighting is time that could have been spent on other things




And time spent shaving is time that could have been spent slaving away inside a salt mine. Are you proposing to have an objective copyright on what time is worth for everyone, and which actions time is spent on are more preferable than others?

Quote:


==> so why fight yourself or others when you can enjoy the time you have been granted?




Why not fight oneself and/or others and enjoy the time you've been granted all the while? :lol:

Quote:


Loving, praying, painting, making music, savouring then moment (all irrational things) aren't harmful. They're even inherently useless yet inherently meaningful things to do.




First off, there is no inherent meaning. Please contribute a map of where this meaning exists for us to study. I'd surmise that meaning certainly doesn't exist within the action or the state of existance itself... :smirk:

And I also do not agree with your claim that your list of actions are all irrational. When I make musikk, the process is embedded with reason and purposeful intention, and I am not at a lack of mental clarity while carrying out the process. If you are proposing these things are irrational based on your own definition of what actions are worthwhile and productive activities, then perhaps you have a need to more fully study into the mechanics at play here. :wink:

Quote:


Sacrificial slaughter, smoking, driving at 120+ mph in your sports car... are all irrational things that could be harmful to yourself and/or others. However, there is no and will be no information campaign powerful enough to stop people from doing these things.




The act of breathing is irrational, and it could be harmful to others around you, as you are consuming the oxygen that they also need for survival.

I don't understand what definitions of rational and irrational you are using, or what list you are using to determine which action falls under which category. :confused:

Quote:


Sometimes, a benefit-cost analysis of your actions can be useful, but if you do them all the time you're spending more time in your head than in real life, which again consumes time neither of us has.




I find this statement here confusing. :grin:

At first you are projecting onto others what is appropriate and beneficial usage of their time, despite the fact that such meaning exists only within one's own mind and applies only to themselves.... Then you create some distinction between thinking and "real life", as if our thoughts do not exist within the same present moment and space as our physical surroundings.... And then you proclaim that doing so consumes time that we don't have, despite the fact that, if we didn't have the time, it wouldn't be possible for us to consume it.  :eek: :confused:

Quote:


Cleared up?




Hardly. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4145224 - 05/07/05 08:28 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

There is a huge difference between non-rational and irrational.



That's not what www.dictionary.com had to say:

1. a. Not endowed with reason.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4145238 - 05/07/05 08:38 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
That's not what www.dictionary.com had to say:

1. a. Not endowed with reason.




Quote:

fireworks_god said:
And I also do not agree with your claim that your list of actions are all irrational. When I make musikk, the process is embedded with reason and purposeful intention, and I am not at a lack of mental clarity while carrying out the process. If you are proposing these things are irrational based on your own definition of what actions are worthwhile and productive activities, then perhaps you have a need to more fully study into the mechanics at play here. :wink:




:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4145248 - 05/07/05 08:57 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Quality is not merely a subjective thing in this regard.



Yes, it is. You just stated the requirements for living. Anything beyond basic needs is quality, which then becomes subjective. Note that "living" is not the same as "life".

Quote:

Actually, there is no inherent meaning, and I fail to see the reasoning behind your labeling "pondering existance" as irrational. Apparently it is not a rational thing to understand, or to attempt to understand, the act that you are carrying out?



Existence is not an act that one can carry out. It just happens.
Thinking about the (non-)existence of a deity (deities) is irrational, for it serves no purpose.

Quote:

Apparently scientists studying physics are acting irrationally, just as the naturalists studying animal life are.



Jumping to conclusions I didn't make. Philosophia Naturalis has long split from the rest of philosophy and shouldn't be considered in this light. Science doesn't merely contemplate reality, it seeks to manipulate reality by understanding it. There can be no comparison with philosophy or religion.

Quote:

Perhaps it is simply that you are irrational, and that you project your image of yourself onto others...



Grow a sense of humour, post haste. If you had been reading what I was saying in its context instead of sentence by sentence in a rhetorical void, you'd have noticed that I was implying that Swami (and everyone else here, including me) was conducting irrational behaviour because pondering existence in itself (as a human being) does not serve a purpose.

Quote:

Perhaps.



Prove otherwise.

Quote:

We're certain of that, eh? Seems like a baseless contention to me.



Read all the words, not just the ones you like. I said "in this form", by which I meant as this very person, in this time, in this place, in this dimension even, if you like.
Still a baseless contention? No pragmatic reason to assume otherwise, is there?

Quote:

There exists beyond our simple intuition, based on directly observable traits of our environment, a universe beyond our understanding. I've heard much suggested about the possibillity of more spatial dimensions, and there is always the possibillity, although it would be difficult for us to understand without the direct experience, of extra time dimensions.

I don't propose to understand the mechanics of time, and regardless, I don't see what this statement contributes...



Okay, let me state it loudly and clearly, then:

- Our time as an organism is ticking away, because our corporeal shell is decaying already.

Quote:

And time spent shaving is time that could have been spent slaving away inside a salt mine. Are you proposing to have an objective copyright on what time is worth for everyone, and which actions time is spent on are more preferable than others?



No. But there is no objective argument why fighting would be beneficial to ANYONE, either.

Quote:

Why not fight oneself and/or others and enjoy the time you've been granted all the while?



Because there's no logical point in it.

Quote:

First off, there is no inherent meaning. Please contribute a map of where this meaning exists for us to study. I'd surmise that meaning certainly doesn't exist within the action or the state of existance itself...



Granted. Note that I posted as an individual, not as an objective demi-urg of your choosing.

Quote:

And I also do not agree with your claim that your list of actions are all irrational. When I make musikk, the process is embedded with reason and purposeful intention, and I am not at a lack of mental clarity while carrying out the process.



Is the action itself rational if the reasons for it are irrational?

Quote:

I don't understand what definitions of rational and irrational you are using, or what list you are using to determine which action falls under which category.



As I said, a benefit-cost analysis. A rational action is one that you have logically proven to be more beneficial than it costs. An irrational action is one where such an anlaysis is not made or considered.
Thus, actions in itself cannot be considered either rational or irrational unless you know the motivators behind them.

Quote:

At first you are projecting onto others what is appropriate and beneficial usage of their time, despite the fact that such meaning exists only within one's own mind and applies only to themselves.... Then you create some distinction between thinking and "real life", as if our thoughts do not exist within the same present moment and space as our physical surroundings.... And then you proclaim that doing so consumes time that we don't have, despite the fact that, if we didn't have the time, it wouldn't be possible for us to consume it.



First off, are you familiar with the concept that time, for us humans, moves forward only? Are you aware that any moment of your life can only be experienced/manipulated once, with no going back? Think of time as a commodity that cannot be gained, only spent. Now then, if you had no time, you'd be dead in my original context.
Second, the distinction between thought and real life is imaginary. I was implying that if you spend all your time thinking, you're not acting. "Real life", as I've said before, implies experiencing. Hence, if contemplating all the time, one is not experiencing.
Finally, on appropriate use of time. If you look at life rationally (as a human being with a limited life span), it is obvious some things aren't worth spending time on. Projecting those unto yourself is the same as projecting them unto others, and vice versa. I never exclude myself when I make general statements.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4145258 - 05/07/05 09:07 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
followed by millenia of study and learning, and the world is still gripped by superstition and irrationality as evidenced daily on this forum. This does not bode well for our future.

Is this due to TV, junk food, pure mental laziness, enculturation or poor genetics?

Thinking is STILL allowed!




In case superstitious is somehow true, then you are the one who is superstitious. There is no right and wrong belief because anything can be true and there is no way to know.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Millions of years of evolution [Re: Alan Stone]
    #4145366 - 05/07/05 10:25 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
Yes, it is. You just stated the requirements for living. Anything beyond basic needs is quality, which then becomes subjective. Note that "living" is not the same as "life".




What of the quality of those basic needs, which would be measured by how beneficial it is for life as compared to other alternatives? A measurement of air with fewer toxins within it is going to be more healthy and life-affirming than another measurement of air full of toxic carcinogens. There is an objective quality of life as it pertains to the quality and effectiveness of the basic needs that we require to sustain us.

Quote:

Existence is not an act that one can carry out. It just happens.




Indeed, it does just happen, but that also does include ourselves interacting with our environment. Action is carried through us, and by this happening, through these interactions, interactions entirely within a local system begin to iniate (granted, of course, that this local system is not in any distinct or seperate from the rest of its environment, referring to it as a local system is merely for conventional purposes :wink:).

Because of this, it is entirely possible for this local system to form a perspective that can observe its environment and, through specific mechanisms, build an understanding of it (this understanding, of course, would only apply to the perspective through which it was gained, and is naturally limited by that, not to mention that this understanding would also exist as a seperate state than the actual properties it is reflective of).

By your same logic, to learn about the game of baseball, the nature of it and the mechanics of it, seperates one from the act of experiencing the playing of the game. I would imagine, then, that you aren't that much of a formidiable force on the baseball field. :wink:

Quote:


Thinking about the (non-)existence of a deity (deities) is irrational, for it serves no purpose.




In who's eyes, does it not serve a purpose? If you are of the belief that life is a force that flows and is directly experienced, than naturally, you would recognize that everything is happening as it is, as a natural result of all of what else has happened and is happening in the universe, and that, obviously, regardless of one's definitions of what is required to be considered rational or to serve a purpose, everything serves a specific purpose, relative to the actions that inevitably follow it.

Quote:

Science doesn't merely contemplate reality, it seeks to manipulate reality by understanding it. There can be no comparison with philosophy or religion.




Any action, or lack of action (which is impossible, every moment we are expressing ourselves in some manner, just as a natural result of our being) manipulates (although I wouldn't personally use that word, I would use "changes") reality. Reality is the sum expression of all of the aspects of itself. I do not see how understanding reality, in some way, manipulates reality, and how this is a negative thing. :confused:

Quote:


Grow a sense of humour, post haste. If you had been reading what I was saying in its context instead of sentence by sentence in a rhetorical void, you'd have noticed that I was implying that Swami (and everyone else here, including me) was conducting irrational behaviour because pondering existence in itself (as a human being) does not serve a purpose.




I find it strange that you would confuse the method with which I chose to reply to your post as the manner in which I read your post. There is obviously going to be a difference in the manner that I perceive something in, and the conscious manner that I specifically choose to respond to you with, considering specific points that I wish to make.

I'm also surprised that you would suggest for me to grow a sense of humor, as if I have, in some way or another, made it seem as if I do not have one. I propose that you have no real basis upon which to form the conclusion that I am without a sense of humor, as you have absolutely no experience concerning myself as I relate to a sense of humor. (you aren't around me when I am collecting stimulus towards which I might respond to with humor, in other words :tongue:).

I felt that I had understood your point perfectly, regardless of how I replied. Also, I must again comment on how you continue to suggest that human beings thinking and building an understanding of their environment and of themselves serves no purpose. Purpose and meaning, as I have said, are not inherent within the phenomenon themselves, and instead exist only within one's mind.

I would love to know where you got your list of what has purpose and what does not, as well as what confirms that the list is the verifiable source on what has purpose and what does not.

Quote:


Prove otherwise.




Prove what otherwise? I said "perhaps", which means "possibly, maybe". I never proposed any contention that I need to prove. :grin:

Quote:


Read all the words, not just the ones you like. I said "in this form", by which I meant as this very person, in this time, in this place, in this dimension even, if you like.
Still a baseless contention? No pragmatic reason to assume otherwise, is there?




Ja, I was indeed quite aware of the fact that you used the term "form", as well as what you implied by doing so.

It is a baseless contention as well, that we will never live this life again in this form. You have absolutely no evidence to enlist in showing that it does have basis.

Quote:


- Our time as an organism is ticking away, because our corporeal shell is decaying already.




If there were more dimensions of time that were not directly observable in our experience of reality, as their workings would be beyond our realm of perception, then it can not be said that our time is limited and that we will never again repeat this. Not only that, but you also have nothing to base the fact that our experience of the passage of time is actually the objective manner in which time passes (if time indeed does pass). The fact that you experience it to be so in no way serves as a verifiable proof that time objectively operates in that manner, it could very well be your own delusion.

Quote:


No. But there is no objective argument why fighting would be beneficial to ANYONE, either.




Unless, of course, one was a boxer, and by fighting someone, you were paid millions of dollars. You then used that money to construct a comfortable house that supplied fresh, life-affirming air, free of contaminants, and also grew your own food in a perfect, unharmed environment, free of any harmful addictivies or toxins, etc. etc. etc.

Without boxing, the person would have never attained the means by which to alter his environment to increase the objective quality of his life, that the basic needs that he required were fufilled with the best possible resources.

Quote:


Because there's no logical point in it.




By your definiton, perhaps. However, you do not have a copyright on what others experience, nor are you in any position to judge whether or not what they experience and how they act has a logical point behind it.

Quote:


Granted. Note that I posted as an individual, not as an objective demi-urg of your choosing.




Regardless of how you posted, when you use the term "inherent" with meaning, you need to realize that there is no "inherent" meaning.

Quote:


Is the action itself rational if the reasons for it are irrational?




In what way are the reasons behind the action irrational? You've yet to demonstrate this, or refer us to the list of rational actions as compared to the list of irrational actions.

Quote:


As I said, a benefit-cost analysis. A rational action is one that you have logically proven to be more beneficial than it costs. An irrational action is one where such an anlaysis is not made or considered.
Thus, actions in itself cannot be considered either rational or irrational unless you know the motivators behind them.




And yet you hold onto definitions of what actions are rational and which are irrational despite the fact that you are not aware of the purpose and meaning that others find in them.

Quote:


First off, are you familiar with the concept that time, for us humans, moves forward only? Are you aware that any moment of your life can only be experienced/manipulated once, with no going back? Think of time as a commodity that cannot be gained, only spent. Now then, if you had no time, you'd be dead in my original context.




Are you familiar with the fact that your experience of the mechanics of time and its properties are not necessarily the same as others experience those mechanics, its passage? Not only this, but regardless of one's experience of it, we are not aware of the true nature of time or how it operates? You make assertions but have nothing but your own subjective experience to back them up, which means that those assertions only apply to you and your own experience, not necessarily anyone else's.

Quote:


Second, the distinction between thought and real life is imaginary. I was implying that if you spend all your time thinking, you're not acting. "Real life", as I've said before, implies experiencing. Hence, if contemplating all the time, one is not experiencing.




Thinking is an action. One experiences thoughts just as well as one experiences "external" aspects of their environment. It is possible that one's incessant thinking is draining awareness away from one's direct experience of reality, but that doesn't equate into no experience (it only changes what is being experienced :smirk:). If you are to claim that thinking means that no experience is taking place, then that also means that one does not exist, by your own words. Everytime you think, you don't exist? :confused:


Finally, on appropriate use of time. If you look at life rationally (as a human being with a limited life span), it is obvious some things aren't worth spending time on.
(ran out of quotes, apparently :lol:)

No, it isn't. Your own preferences as to what is appropriate usage of time do not in any way imply that other people are subject to your own preferences. Your own bias is obstructing your awareness of the fact that meaning does not exist objectively, inherent in the phenomenon it is being related to, and that no aspect of reality contains any meaning or sense of appropriateness.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


Edited by fireworks_god (05/07/05 10:35 AM)


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