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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Prayer in public school
    #4134653 - 05/04/05 10:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I go to a state university in the USA and i'm taking an "exploring the bible" class that is supposed to be taught objectively...ie treating the bible like a storybook and analyzing it from that viewpoint.

anyways, the guy who teaches it is an old jewish guy and he always says god bless you and stuff like that. yesterday he was talking about the gnostics and was referring to their religion as something "WE don't believe". we have learned all we have needed to learn on tuesday but we're having on last class before finals on "national prayer day" where he's giving us an opportunity to sit through an extra class and at the end recite a prayer from the bible for extra credit. i absolutely don't want to go but i desperately need the extra credit.

i feel very uncomfortable when he refers to the class as a group that believes in christianity and i know i'll feel the same awkwardness when i have to recite a prayer tomorrow. i feel like something is wrong here and he shouldn't be doing what he's doing but i also feel trapped because i need the points so bad. i don't know what else to say, it just feels wrong.


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: TODAY]
    #4134703 - 05/04/05 10:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That is weird. He should realize that there is a possibility that not everyone is a "believer" in there. He should keep that in mind when instructing the class.

Although, I find his behavior no more intrusive, presumptuous, and out of line than a rabid Leftist professor spewing bias out of his or her mouth.

Should professors just present the material in a straight forward and unbiased way? Or should they be allowed to inject their opinions and personal beliefs into the mix? These are difficult and profound questions.

I would say just do the extra credit. Who the fuck cares if you believe in it or not? Some teachers are biased and if you lean towards their bias you will probably get a better grade. I was an anti-Leftist in college, so I didn't agree with a lot of what my Lefty professors were saying. But, the more I nodded my head the more A's I got.

Edit: I never encountered a religious, conservative, or Right-biased professor in my post-secondary education. All of the overbearing and overly biased professors I had were Lefties.


Edited by RandalFlagg (05/04/05 10:42 PM)


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InvisibleTODAY
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Registered: 09/25/03
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Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Prayer in public school [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4134756 - 05/04/05 10:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

true randal, i'm going to do it because i have to...i'm more pissed about his attitude regarding me not being able to make up assignments i missed when i was sick and even called the phone line he left for us and left a message asking for the assignment the day it was assigned.  he never called me back and when i went to thenext class and told him that (after finding out people were turning in papers) he blew me off. 

he then said i could do extra credit and i asked him what i should write it on (because he told people some topics after class one day, i was there and wrote them down but i lost them) and he lied to my face and told me that he never assigned any topics and that it was up to the students to figure out a topic....ayyyyy, i'm just not doing well in there and i'm pissed at the old fart.  he also accussed me of never going to class (i missed twice when i was VERY sick) when that senile fuck walks around and makes sure to talk to me every time.

well, that's my rant.  i still think if he makes people uncomfortable regarding a religious issue then that's not cool.  now to search for a prayer...maybe i should pick a satanic prayer :evil:...he can't discriminate against anyone's religious views if he expresses his right? :evil: :evil:


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4134769 - 05/04/05 10:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
That is weird. He should realize that there is a possibility that not everyone is a "believer" in there. He should keep that in mind when instructing the class.

Although, I find his behavior no more intrusive, presumptuous, and out of line than a rabid Leftist professor spewing bias out of his or her mouth.

Should professors just present the material in a straight forward and unbiased way? Or should they be allowed to inject their opinions and personal beliefs into the mix? These are difficult and profound questions.

I would say just do the extra credit. Who the fuck cares if you believe in it or not? Some teachers are biased and if you lean towards their bias you will probably get a better grade. I was an anti-Leftist in college, so I didn't agree with a lot of what my Lefty professors were saying. But, the more I nodded my head the more A's I got.

Edit: I never encountered a religious, conservative, or Right-biased professor in my post-secondary education. All of the overbearing and overly biased professors I had were Lefties.




Try taking some criminal justice and pre-law courses. Rabid right-wingers in there. Especially if, like a lot of the ones I've taken, the professors are ex-LEO's (or even currently employed as such).


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Happiness is a warm gun...


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: unbeliever]
    #4134801 - 05/04/05 10:57 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)


Try taking some criminal justice and pre-law courses. Rabid right-wingers in there. Especially if, like a lot of the ones I've taken, the professors are ex-LEO's (or even currently employed as such).

I always enjoyed irking teachers. If I had a Righty ex-law enforcement professor I would probably come into the classroom blasting "Fuck Tha Police" by N.W.A.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: TODAY]
    #4134810 - 05/04/05 10:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

where he's giving us an opportunity to sit through an extra class and at the end recite a prayer from the bible for extra credit.

Isn't that basically just memorization? He isn't forcing you to believe what you recite. Nor as far as you have posted is he forcing you to espouse a belief in what you recite.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleTODAY
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Registered: 09/25/03
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: cb9fl]
    #4134823 - 05/04/05 11:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

no i'm not forced to believe anything...they did outlaw the ten commandments in public schools. the children don't have to believe it but they shouldn't be exposed to it if other religions aren't being exposed to them.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: TODAY]
    #4134881 - 05/04/05 11:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

and i'm taking an "exploring the bible" class

You chose the fucking class. What are they supposed to teach in "exploring the bible"? Maybe they could teach "nondenominational feel good learn nothing crap about history or religion and it's potential affect on society".


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: TODAY]
    #4134941 - 05/04/05 11:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Giving extra credit for a prayer group is coercive in manner and violates the Etbalishment Claus of the Constitution.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: Redstorm]
    #4134969 - 05/04/05 11:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Giving extra credit for a prayer group

He's asking them to recite a certain prayer, not pray.


Quote:

2 entries found for recite.
re?cite Audio pronunciation of "recite" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-st)
v. re?cit?ed, re?cit?ing, re?cites
v. tr.

1. To repeat or utter aloud (something rehearsed or memorized), especially before an audience.
2. To relate in detail. See Synonyms at describe.
3. To list or enumerate.


v. intr.

1. To deliver a recitation.
2. To repeat lessons prepared or memorized.





Quote:

4 entries found for pray.
pray Audio pronunciation of "pray" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr)
v. prayed, pray?ing, prays
v. intr.

1. To utter or address a prayer or prayers to God, a god, or another object of worship.
2. To make a fervent request or entreaty.




--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Prayer in public school [Re: cb9fl]
    #4135065 - 05/04/05 11:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i'm supposed to recite a prayer because it is "national prayer day". we aren't reciting prayers for the sake of saying words. we might as well search sayings of jesus (not prayers) if the words meant nothing. considering the context of the day and the fact that we are saying prayers sends a message to me that the aim is religious in nature.

i can do it but i'll feel awkward, but whatever, i need the points.

the class is called "exploring the bible" because it is supposed to be an objective overview of the stories involved and the history behind its compilation. it isn't supposed to be an avenue for a religous professor to convey a religous message. it is not supposed to be a place where prayer is exchanged for extra credit. granted, there are many christian/catholics in the class...i can tell by listening to how they speak, what they speak of, etc.

regardless of the majority religious make up of the class being synchronous to the text we are reading objectively it is wrong for the teacher to tell us "god bless you all" at the end of class and force us to come to class on a day after all material has been covered to say a prayer for extra credit.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: TODAY]
    #4135087 - 05/04/05 11:58 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

it is wrong for the teacher to tell us "god bless you all" at the end of class and force us to come to class on a day after all material has been covered to say a prayer for extra credit.

Well I don't agree with him not being able to day god bless you all. That's his choice and just because he's a teacher doesn't mean his religious beliefs should be oppressed.

But I can see your point about the prayer day thing. Have you expressed your thoughts to him about this issue? Perhaps he will give you another assignment.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Prayer in public school [Re: cb9fl]
    #4135114 - 05/05/05 12:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i'll do the assignment, i have a prayer ready to go, i can recite it in class.

i don't want to take on another assignment because this one is really easy. i mostly don't like his stubborn attitude regarding make up assignments and him lying to me yesterday regarding extra credit assignments and telling me i never go to class (which isn't true). he pissed me off and i feel like getting him back for something that he is doing that honestly does make me feel uncomfortable.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: TODAY]
    #4135206 - 05/05/05 12:15 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If he's an old Jewish guy, why do you think he has a Christian bias towards prayer and such? Unless you mean Jewish by race and Christian by religion.

That sucks, but it's life. Professors abuse their positions all the time, and most don't care much about what the students think of their abuses.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: TODAY]
    #4136037 - 05/05/05 03:22 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, technically by law, he should have to allow you to do a different assignment for the extra credit.


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: TODAY]
    #4139113 - 05/05/05 08:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Dude, sometimes you need to sacrifice shit for what you believe in, no matter how badly you need this extra credit, do NOT do something that you don't feel comfortable with to earn it. Don't pray if you don't think it is right, if you fail the class at least yuo stood up for yourself, IMHO that counts more than any grade.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: Dark_Star]
    #4139550 - 05/05/05 10:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If you need the extra credit to pass then do it...if not fuck it....You know that it's fucked up, and if you want to you can make a stand after it's over with.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Prayer in public school [Re: TODAY]
    #4139701 - 05/05/05 11:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

State Universities are not "public schools".


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Prayer in public school [Re: SoopaX]
    #4139801 - 05/05/05 11:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

They're publicly funded.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Prayer in public school [Re: cb9fl]
    #4139812 - 05/05/05 11:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

So are streets, can I pray in the street?

Also, all schools are publically funded.


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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