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InvisibletrendalM
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AI Government
    #4134264 - 05/04/05 08:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

For the sake of argument, let us assume that real Artificial Intelligence is possible, and that AI can far superceed the intellectual abilities of any human.

So imagine a country where the "government" existed solely of a massive AI entity. The AI would exist solely to enforce a constitution that would be drafted by human representatives. Unlike humans, the AI would not be tempted to overuse or abuse its power. It could have virtually unlimited power with respect to the human population: able to monitor every financial trans-action or the location of any citizen. Being far superior in intelligence to humans, it would be immune to misuse by humans.

The AI itself could automate and control the entire nation's infrastructure, removing the need for human social workers or support staff. Perhaps even the need for "jobs" could be eliminated by giving sufficient food rations and living space to each citizen (the AI could control food production and distribution). All police forces would be either entirely AI, or AI-controlled. There is not much of a limit to what you could place under the control of such an AI system, but for our purposes lets assume that this AI allows the individual humans total autonomy within the limits stated in the constitution, but controls everything else.

In effect it would be a sort of communism devoid of human control.

Would you live in such a country? Would you allow governance by a "benign" AI which for all practical purposes could be considered godlike in power?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134279 - 05/04/05 09:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

S&P


--------------------


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134281 - 05/04/05 09:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I would not want to live in such a place.

The human existence is struggle. From the first breath we take, to the struggle for resources all our lives to the struggle against death. Our species, and all species was born out of billions of years of struggle and strife. Take away the struggle and you take away what it is to be human.

Life is struggle, learn to love the fight.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134284 - 05/04/05 09:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I am kind of torn on the issue.

On one hand, I would have to live with the knowledge that my "freedom" is constantly under monitor and control by a conscious, sentient mind. The AI could have me, or anyone, killed in a matter of seconds. It would take an enormous ammount of trust in the AI.

On the other hand, I think it would be a pretty good life to be able to follow my dreams and do essentially whatever I want when I want. No job to go to, or money to worry about. I wouldn't have to worry about putting food on my table or anything, because it shows up every day on its own. The surveilance issue, that the AI knows what I buy, do, and where I go, would not be nearly as bad as it would be with human controllers. I don't think an AI would really care about my personal life.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134285 - 05/04/05 09:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

a merger of all three terminators and the robocop series, i cant see this being good. but in no way do i support artificial entilegence with the power over human life.

controlling all govermetnal function would also involve the corts, and the judges and the sentancing, and ultimately the power of life and death. not a good thing


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: AI Government [Re: ZippoZ]
    #4134299 - 05/04/05 09:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

How is your life any more "safe" in the hands of an error-prone human with biases and a human personality than it is in the hands of a straight-forward logical AI?

Either way it comes down to what he/she/it decides.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134317 - 05/04/05 09:09 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe its easier to take up arms against an evil human govt than an evil AI govt? Not sure but I think it would be easier to fight a human govt.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: AI Government [Re: DieCommie]
    #4134323 - 05/04/05 09:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That's assuming we can apply the human concept of "evil" to an AI.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleDieCommie
El Guapo
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Posts: 27,904
Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134341 - 05/04/05 09:19 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Well, if it is capable of making decisions, its capable of making decisions that would hurt us or help us. Of course these ideas can be subjective, but i see no problem in applying the concept of evil to an AI that would hurt me.

But aside from applying evil to an in-human intelligence, dont you think you would have a better chance for survival vs a human govt.?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: AI Government [Re: DieCommie]
    #4134365 - 05/04/05 09:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

No of course not. I did say that in this argument the AI has essentially godlike powers.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134377 - 05/04/05 09:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds very similar to technochracy, except that doesn't rely on AI, but rather a group of scientists called the "technate" to control the machines. I'm a bit skeptical of the movement, but if they can accomplish what they say they can, then I might be interested.


--------------------


Edited by Paradigm (05/04/05 09:45 PM)


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Offlinescribble
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Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134406 - 05/04/05 09:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

were did the AI get it's I from? Did it learn it on its own? did it find it in archives? Did somebody "feed" the info?

Does the AI control the world or are there other AIs in other countries?


--------------------
Mahayana Buddhist tradition tells how Buddha lived on one hemp seed a day.
This was enough to sustain him during the six steps of asceticism leading to his Enlightenment.
In recent centuries, higher doses have been favoured.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: AI Government [Re: scribble]
    #4134436 - 05/04/05 09:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Humans created the AI, which then self-evolved into something far superior to its original design (a sort of super-evolution). Most of what it knows, it would have learned on its own.

And no, the AI does not control the world, just this hypothetical country. Should you wish to leave and live elsewhere, you may do so.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134441 - 05/04/05 09:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Would you live in such a country?

Sure, at least computers run on logic whereas politicians don't half the time.

Would you allow governance by a "benign" AI which for all practical purposes could be considered godlike in power?

How benign are we talking about?
If the rule is just, the laws are well, their is no motivation with the exception of the benefit of the society and its members... and pure and utter objectivity is given through computers that have limitations as to their direct power... that is that the AI is in no way, shape, or form given complete access to all power (miltary especially) and some form of a human component is involved (for purposes of delegating tasks, and delegating priority) then I don't see much of an issue.

Man should rule through computers, and not the opposite.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: AI Government [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4134457 - 05/04/05 09:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Would you live in such a country?

Sure, at least computers run on logic whereas politicians don't half the time.



Half the time? You're far too generous.


--------------------


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Offlinescribble
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Re: AI Government [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4134459 - 05/04/05 09:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

if the AI can learn it can be corrupt. It can see that it is superior and it can decide that humans aren't needed... No I would not wish to live under its rule. It was made by man and so it is flawed.


--------------------
Mahayana Buddhist tradition tells how Buddha lived on one hemp seed a day.
This was enough to sustain him during the six steps of asceticism leading to his Enlightenment.
In recent centuries, higher doses have been favoured.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: AI Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #4134565 - 05/04/05 10:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I can imbellish a bit no? :smile:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134630 - 05/04/05 10:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

How is your life any more "safe" in the hands of an error-prone human with biases and a human personality than it is in the hands of a straight-forward logical AI?




...technology does not have glitches? What about all the possible vectors that a corrupt human can fuck with this system (malicious code)?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: AI Government [Re: trendal]
    #4134840 - 05/04/05 11:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

With artificial intelligence, though, there's always the possibility it will, for some reason or another, start to abuse its power, and now we have an incomprehensibly intelligent, fastly evolving totalitarian machine in place who could easily outwit us. Humans may abuse their power naturally, but they're so incompetent at everything they do we're guaranteed plenty of loopholes and general freedoms, even if we must go under the eyes of authority.

I think a machine would be better at leading than a politican though, provided it had checks and balances with humans, such as an artifical intelligence Supreme Court.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Registered: 06/26/05
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Re: AI Government [Re: Ravus]
    #4567391 - 08/22/05 07:40 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Sounds like Sharia law in some ways.



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