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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4138188 - 05/05/05 02:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Read the articles I posted.... their are many types of soil, they use choice types.

http://www.radonseal.com/radon-facts.htm

*Radon - the killer in tobacco
Out of the nearly 4,000 chemicals found in tobacco smoke, only two definite chemical carcinogens have been found - benzopyrine and nitrosamine. However, the most potent carcinogen in tobacco is radiation from the radioactive products of radon. Polonium-210 is the only component of cigarette smoke that has produced cancers by itself in laboratory animals by inhalation - tumors appear at a level five times lower than the dose to a heavy smoker.

Lung cancer rates among men kept climbing from a rarity in 1930 (4/100,000 per year) to the No. 1 cancer killer in 1980 (72/100,000) in spite of an almost 20 percent reduction in smoking. But during the same period, the level of polonium-210 in American tobacco had tripled. This coincided with the increase in the use of phosphate fertilizers by tobacco growers - calcium phosphate ore accumulates uranium and slowly releases radon gas.

As radon decays, its electrically charged daughter products attach themselves to dust particles, which adhere to the sticky hairs on the underside of tobacco leaves. This leaves a deposit of radioactive polonium and lead on the leaves. Then, the intense localized heat in the burning tip of a cigarette volatilizes the radioactive metals. While cigarette filters can trap chemical carcinogens, they are ineffective against radioactive vapors.

The lungs of a chronic smoker end up with a radioactive lining in a concentration much higher than from residential radon. These particles emit radiation. Smoking two packs of cigarettes a day imparts a radiation dose by alpha particles of about 1,300 millirem per year. (IEM) For comparison, the annual radiation dose to the average American from inhaled radon is 200 mrem. However, the radiation dose at the radon "action level" of 4 pCi/L is roughly equivalent to smoking 10 cigarettes a day.

In addition, polunium-210 is soluble and is circulated through the body to every tissue and cell in levels much higher than from residential radon. The proof is that it can be found in the blood and urine of smokers. The circulating polonium-210 causes genetic damage and early death from diseases reminiscent of early radiological pioneers: liver and bladder cancers, stomach ulcers, leukemias, cirrhosis of liver, and cardiovascular diseases.

The Surgeon General C. Everett Koop stated that radioactivity, rather than tar, accounts for at least 90% of all smoking-related lung cancers. The Center for Disease Control concluded "Americans are exposed to far more radiation from tobacco smoke than from any other source."

Cigarette smoking accounts for 30% of all cancer deaths. Only poor diet rivals tobacco smoke as a cause of cancer in the U.S., causing a comparable number of fatalities each year. However, the National Cancer Institute, with an annual budget of $500 million, has no active funding for research of radiation from smoking or residential radon as a cause of lung cancer, presumably, to protect the public from undue fears of radiation.

Dr. Gordon Edwards: Estimating Lung Cancers
Radioactive Polonium in Tobacco, Meat and Dairy*



--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/05/05 02:49 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4138583 - 05/05/05 04:18 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hell, this one's even better. http://www.acsa.net/HealthAlert/lungcancer.html
Don't see this as a tax plot by the government but it is certainly interesting, since I smoke and both parents died of LC.
See, if you can show me, I'll listen.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4138870 - 05/05/05 05:17 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

:whatever: I said to justify the fact of MJ having negative affects (supposedly MJ is more cancerous then tobacco, although no proof given, and no direct correlations provided)..... we can play your games all night; but don't put words in my mouth... The purpose of the statement "justify a tax" was in terms of its negative affects, as it isn't a prepared product, and typically products that are natural/unprepared don't have taxes. (It'd have to do with how it's legally defined, considering it has various applications compared to tobacco... unless we're to assume that it's going to be taxed purely to prevent complexity). Although oddly enough, you're right about tobacco being taxed despite the lack of knowledge regarding its effects... think it was just taxed as a way to siphon off revenue... As fruits and vegetables aren't taxed... whereas Tobacco is a leaf, so I suppose it can be taxed because of that... but MJ well the primary componenet is considered to be "the fruit"... so. 

I suppose you found fault with the link above as well?

If you have a question ask, it's far easier to get a direct answer them making assumptions.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/05/05 05:48 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4139039 - 05/05/05 05:56 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:


We could grow it in uranium enriched soil like tobacco is in the USA to make sure(this signifies an intention that negative shit is the goal) negative shit will happen to justify(are you saying that there is no justification for a tax in the absence of negative shit?) a stupid tax.


italics are from Zappa.

I didn't put words in your mouth. You posited a plot to make tobacco more lethal so that there would be increased popular support for a tax. There have been taxes on tobacco products in general and cigarettes in particular since the 1800s, long before the adverse health effects were known or enhanced by the overuse of calcium phosphate fertilizers.

Don't be so paranoid. There are probably people out to get you but they're not the ones you think.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4139044 - 05/05/05 05:59 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

You made an edit while I was composing my last post. Some of my reply may be irrelevant.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4139066 - 05/05/05 06:06 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

^^ read the post before this... that's to make sure that a tax goes over on Marijuana to pay for it'd false deleterious effects... as well as the fact that it could be classified as a fruit and avoid the taxes...

I was pointing out how tobacco is further bad as a result of its growning conditions, where if not for certain soil types, and the uses of such.... shit could be avoided and some of the primary reasons for further taxation in accords with health care in light of recent events could be countered if not for that.

Ask and don't assume please. I try to be as specific as possible... but I'm not known for my clarity :smile:.

are you saying that there is no justification for a tax in the absence of negative shit?

Prepared and manufactured products deserve a tax, anything else shouldn't be open to taxes, however the methods of transportation and what not still are taxed (through taxes on energy)... so it works itself out just fine....

In this little hypothetical SS example in order for anything to occur using MJ as a solution... clear and definitive boundaries would need to be placed on taxation laws, and the reasonings thereof as currently it can be misconstrued to a degree to suggest that taxes don't actually apply to it in light of the poorly defined parameters in place... If I can misconstrue it... I'm sure a Lawyer can cause havoc.

Edit:
Disregard what's irrelevant from all our editing, sorry was clarifying points on the previous post.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4139084 - 05/05/05 06:12 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I'm currently attempting to look up clear definitive tax laws for this circumstance, but it's relatively difficult considering the laws aren't applied equally on all substances/products.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4139173 - 05/05/05 06:46 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Before we get even further afield than we already are (radioactive additives to tobacco fa cryin' out loud!) why not first attempt to address the topic of the thread -- shortfalls in Social Security.



Phred


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Phred]
    #4139181 - 05/05/05 06:49 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It has everything to do with SS... as the product would need to be taxed, and without a legitimate reason, and classification concerning current law.... MJ couldn't be used as a solution.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4139206 - 05/05/05 06:55 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It has nothing to do with the Social Security shortfall. If you want to start a thread about how the government should best increase its revenues through additional taxation, go right ahead.

If no one has anything further to contribute re: the SS shortfall, I have no problem with locking the thread.



Phred


--------------------

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Phred]
    #4139273 - 05/05/05 07:11 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I thought the purpose of this thread was to analyze Cyber's solution to SS... not SS overall. :shrug:

Or else wouldn't his plan be off topic for even suggesting legalizing and taxing pot as a solution? I'm not entirely sure though, as Cyber hasn't further replied.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4139313 - 05/05/05 07:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hmmm. When looked at that way, I must concede that even Cyber isn't talking about SS, but about merely another thing for the government to tax. Okay then... continue discussing the taxation of legalized MJ. No need to further cover radioactive tobacco.


Phred


--------------------

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OfflineCyber
Ash
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Dearborn Michigan
Last seen: 10 months, 15 days
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4141162 - 05/06/05 07:08 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
I thought the purpose of this thread was to analyze Cyber's solution to SS... not SS overall. :shrug:

Or else wouldn't his plan be off topic for even suggesting legalizing and taxing pot as a solution? I'm not entirely sure though, as Cyber hasn't further replied.




That is correct, the idea was to get input on the idea. Good, bad, right, wrong, did I mess up any numbers, etc.

Sorry I am slow to respond. I have been busy making money.  :grin:

As to the question of excise taxes and can the government do it.

Yes they can, it is covered in the U.S. Constitution Article I. The first court case on the subject was Hylton v. United States, 1796.

As to the whole tobacco issue, that is for another thread.

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