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OfflineCyber
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The Social Security Short Fall
    #4132484 - 05/04/05 02:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

As the social security debate continues I began to think and do a little number crunching. The Social Security's Board of Trustees estimates the cash shortfall over the next 75 years To total $25.33 trillion dollars. I personally think we should scrap the system and find a new one. The problem arises with the people who have invested in the ponzi scheme and expect to get there money back. I Think I have found a way to cover this shortfall!

Legalize marijuana and place an 8% excise tax on it!

So here is how it plays out.

In 2005, The National Drug Control budget exceeds $12,648,600,000 (National Drug Control Strategy FY 2005 Budget Summary, Page)

In 2001, 78,501 People were in Federal Prison for Drug law Violations 26% of which are marijuana violations (Bureau of Justice Statistics)

It cost $23,917 per inmate per year to house them.(Federal Prison System Operating Cost Per Inmate DOJ (2002))

So to start off we can reduce the federal budget by $12,648,600,000 (NDC Budget) and save $488,152,188 in jail costs (based on the 26% figure). This would be a total savings of $13,136,752,188. Yep 13 Billion right of the top!

In 2002, An estimated 11% (25.8 million) had used marijuana in the past year, and 6.2% (14.6 million) had used it in the past month. One-third of the past month users, or 4.8 million persons, reported using marijuana 20 or more days in the past month. (2002 National Survey on Drug Use and Health)

So using these statics It breaks down as follows.

Annual $2,500,000,000 (Based on annual users spending $100 once a year)
Revenue $200,000,000 (8% Excise Tax)
Monthly $480,000,000,000 (Based on monthly users spending $100 once per month)
Revenue $38,400,000,000 (8% Excise Tax)
Annual Revenue $460,800,000,000 (Over 12 months)
Annual Total $461,000,000,000 (Total for all users)

10 Year Total $4,610,000,000,000
75 Year Total $34,575,000,000,000

So by legalizing marijuana and taxing it at 8% we can generate the revenue needed to cover the Social Security Short Fall in 75 Years.

These are intended to be conservative figures. Please let me know if $100 per month sounds high.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Cyber]
    #4132577 - 05/04/05 02:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:lol: "based on annual users spending $100 once a year"
~Terribly low estimate, unless we're talking about elementary schools, in which case they should be omitted.

Their is no need to be overly greedy, but really people spend a lot of money on recreation, the price should be comparable, to similar forms of intoxication.

I say keep the price of MJ inflated to also help pay for any further health risks associated with it. Perhaps 2-5x the cost of production... which would still be cheaper then street costs, as well as buying in bulk, including the tax. It'd have to be either produced by corporations or the government themselves.

The thing is that, in order for it to be a profitable venture for all parties, it would require growing restrictions as well, or else the tax can just be bypassed, and irresponsible use would result of it being legalized in a manner where it would be free for everyone to grow...

Although I'd suggest it to be fully legalized in all capacities, much of society wouldn't buy that so ....:shrug:.

You'd additionally need to still rework the SS system, by closing the fund that is collected for payment, + further invest this money in guranteed profit producing ventures to ensure the way of life accounting for economic inflation... Anything that is left over in the fund after everything has been accounted for, and adjustments made by projected inflation could be siphoned off to other government programs, or given back through tax cuts... it'd work itself out just fine. 

Those statistics are probably on the low sides as well concerning the number of users... I'm not going to bother to look up their process of obtaining the figure, but just something to further look into.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/04/05 03:09 PM)


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Cyber]
    #4132655 - 05/04/05 03:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

http://compnet.comp.state.md.us/red/attb/atinfo/fedtaxchart.asp

The tax associated with it needn't be static on the amount. The system could be refined for types, and potencies, as well as forms similar to the current alcohol excise tax... whatever would work provided this was actually looked at as a viable solution to SS... Provided the shit is good, of guranteed potency, and is slightly cheaper then the current prices that exist due to legality, it would go over well enough.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4132731 - 05/04/05 03:17 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
I say keep the price of MJ inflated to also help pay for any further health risks associated with it.



What health risks? Cotton mouth?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Silversoul]
    #4132761 - 05/04/05 03:20 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I meant in way of current government propoganda which infers that it causes cancer, talks about all the other respitory effects (which are true, just over emphasized), bi-polar disorder, ADD, Schizophrenia, lmnop, etc...

Initially that would be an issue of controversy, after actual studies with government bias are conducted, it'll be proven otherwise, and the tax can be negated, however it'll need to be in place to ensure the public of government accountability through taxes and not introducing another burden etc.... as policies should be thought out wholly as to their consequences... though much aren't.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/04/05 03:23 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4132774 - 05/04/05 03:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think people are too stupid to realize that the extra tax on it is supposed to counter any bad side effects anyway, so might as well have it reflect its actual effects.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Silversoul]
    #4132782 - 05/04/05 03:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, well that would be more for the hard-core devout believers that were mind fucked into believing how bad MJ is from Reefer Madness and from ancient propaganda/reports.

We could grow it in uranium enriched soil like tobacco is in the USA to make sure negative shit will happen to justify a stupid tax.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/04/05 03:27 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4132791 - 05/04/05 03:26 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If MJ were legalized, then those people would obviously be outnumbered anyway.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Silversoul]
    #4132811 - 05/04/05 03:28 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It'll be legalized soon enough to make way for a new generation open to MJ, however that's assuming people stop being brainwashed.... big assumption on my part.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4133125 - 05/04/05 04:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:

We could grow it in uranium enriched soil like tobacco is in the USA to make sure negative shit will happen to justify a stupid tax.




Huh?


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4133179 - 05/04/05 04:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4133207 - 05/04/05 04:51 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm all atwitter in anticipation.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4133216 - 05/04/05 04:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

hrmmm? The sites I posted provide the info as well, looking for a more concise summary of it currently.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/04/05 04:55 PM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4134741 - 05/04/05 10:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I'm all atwitter in anticipation.



I found this after a quick search.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Cyber]
    #4134817 - 05/04/05 11:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Though with marijuana being relatively easy to produce and get a good product from, a lot of people might grow their own and sell it to their friends and others without taxes, which may significantly lower the amount of money we get from it. Especially if, as some want to do, marijuana taxes make it 2-5 times their normal cost.

If the government tries to tax it too much, it'll only lose out in the end as people turn to growing this plant on their own.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Ravus]
    #4134830 - 05/04/05 11:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Good point. I have a feeling that the cheapness of growing mariuana is the reason the pharmaceutical industry doesn't want it legalized.


--------------------


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Ravus]
    #4134860 - 05/04/05 11:10 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If it were legal I would grow.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Ravus]
    #4134929 - 05/04/05 11:26 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

No... you read me wrong, 2-5x the cost of production, which would still be cheaper then the current product, especially in a large scale agg environment. Even with an 8% flat tax, however with a moderate excise it could still be cheaper then the current product at street and bulk value.

I merely made the suggestion for everything to coincide with the proposal, It would work out fine provided restraints and restrictions were applied solely to fix the SS issue that's fucked up, afterwards laws could be deregulated to promote a more free product (with minimal scheduling constraints of course similar to that of tobacco/alcohol in this model as its purpose would be to gain $$, and not about personal responsibility).


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRavus
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: DNKYD]
    #4134952 - 05/04/05 11:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Same here. Even if it wasn't, I still would.

I think the reason a lot of the business world doesn't like marijuana as much as alcohol or tobacco is because 1) it's easy to manufacture and cure, 2) it's not addictive so you can stop any time, 3) you don't smoke excessive amounts of it in a day like you do with tobacco (which is a main problem with growing tobacco), and 4) it doesn't need to be separated from dangerous chemicals like ethanol does with methanol and such. Not to mention making alcohol can be a lot more of a pain in the ass and risky than marijuana, as it's easier to just go and buy a 30-pack at the store than to make your own beer. Not so with marijuana. Tobacco and alcohol are much better drugs for industries to take over than marijuana will ever be.

Mushrooms are also similar to marijuana in this respect. LSD could easily be profited upon by businesses though, the main problem being that's it not addictive and is hard to take excessively due to the fastly-building tolerance, but nevertheless I don't see why businesses don't seem interested in manufacturing LSD for the layman. Seeing as a business could make it for less than pennies a milligram if it bought and manufactured in bulk, as it would, and then sell it for thousands of times that price and still give a good deal, it seems ridiculous no one's interested.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The Social Security Short Fall [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4136449 - 05/05/05 07:28 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Yeah, well that would be more for the hard-core devout believers that were mind fucked into believing how bad MJ is from Reefer Madness and from ancient propaganda/reports.

We could grow it in uranium enriched soil like tobacco is in the USA to make sure negative shit will happen to justify a stupid tax.




Every link given by you and z@z cites naturally occurring radiation in the soil, usually from radon. Doesn't seem to be any evidence of a plot to make the stuff extra deadly to justify a tax (however THAT was supposed to work. There was a tax on cigarettes even before they knew how bad they were).


--------------------


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