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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes
    #4121298 - 05/02/05 12:39 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Apr05/Sanders0430.htm

What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports
Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes
by Ken Sanders
www.dissidentvoice.org
April 30, 2005






Following the reports of, first, the Senate Intelligence Committee and, most recently, the Commission on Intelligence Capabilities of the U.S. regarding Iraq's WMD, it is by now well-known that the intelligence community is solely to blame for the false promise that Iraq possessed chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. According to both reports, the key judgments of the intelligence community regarding Iraq's WMD capabilities were either overstated or unsupported. It was on this intelligence that the Bush administration purportedly relied in its decision to invade Iraq.

Both reports would have us believe that President Bush was merely a patsy who was duped by an incompetent and politically-motivated intelligence community. Even if that were true, it would not paint a particularly flattering picture of our beloved President.

In any event, the shared conclusion of the two reports is not true. Not entirely, anyway. It may even be that the conclusion about Bush being misled by intelligence will turn out to be entirely false. Proving that, however, would require access to confidential information which the government is not likely to disclose. Be that as it may, it is possible to prove from the public record that, at least with respect to Iraq's nuclear capabilities, Bush exaggerated the threat all on his own.

As a threshold matter, it should be noted that neither the Senate Intelligence Committee nor the Commission on Intelligence Capabilities were ever interested or inclined to find fault with the White House. As the Commission candidly acknowledged in its report, "we were not authorized to investigate how policymakers used the intelligence assessments they received from the Intelligence Community." In other words, the Committee was established to blame those who provided the information, "not to review how policymakers subsequently used that information."

As for the Senate Intelligence Committee, it too was concerned only with finding fault with the intelligence community. The issue of how the Bush administration used the intelligence regarding Iraq's WMD was relegated to a "second phase" of the investigation. The likelihood that the purported "second phase" will ever come to fruition grows increasingly unlikely under a Republican-controlled Senate and with the continued passage of time.

Be that as it may, with respect to Iraq's alleged nuclear threat to the U.S. and the world, Bush cannot hide behind either of the reports' whitewash jobs. He can't even hide behind the White House's ever-expanding definition of classified information. His own words do him in.

In the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq, the consensus among the various intelligence agencies was that Iraq was "reconstituting" its nuclear weapons program. According to the Commission's report, the term "reconstituting," for the purposes of the intelligence community, meant that Iraq was in the process of restoring its ability to enrich uranium. According to both reports, the intelligence community's "moderately confident" assessment was that Iraq, if left unchecked, would not be able to develop a nuclear weapon until 2007 or 2009, five to seven years later.

Based upon the findings of both the Intelligence Committee and the Commission, it turns out that Iraq was actually much farther away from developing a nuclear weapon than was estimated by the intelligence community. Nonetheless, even if the estimate was correct, President Bush exaggerated that estimate to misrepresent Iraq's nuclear threat to the American public.

On October 7, 2002, five days after he received and was briefed upon the National Intelligence Estimate, entitled "Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction," President Bush addressed a crowd at the Cincinnati Museum Center. In his remarks, Bush warned that "Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program." That was technically true. More ominously, however, Bush also cautioned that if Iraq was "able to produce, buy, or steal an amount of highly enriched uranium a little larger than a single softball, it could have a nuclear weapon in less than a year." Wrong. According to the Intelligence Committee's review of the pre-war intelligence, even with foreign assistance, it would have still taken Iraq five to seven years to develop a nuclear weapon.

At a rally held on November 4, 2002, in St. Charles, Missouri, President Bush said, "We don't know how close he is today, but a Saddam Hussein with a nuclear weapon is a true threat to America and our friends and allies." Three days later, on November 7, 2002, President Bush told the press, "And by the way, we don't know how close he [Saddam Hussein] is to a nuclear weapon right now.... We know he was close to one at one point in time; we have no idea today." In point of fact, based upon the intelligence he was provided, Bush did know how close Iraq was to a nuclear weapon -- five to seven years.

Similarly, during a press conference on December 31, 2002, President Bush said, "We don't know whether or nor he [Hussein] has a nuclear weapon." False. Based upon the pre-war consensus of the intelligence community, Bush knew full well that Iraq did not have any nuclear weapons. He also knew that, at best, Iraq was five to seven years away from developing a nuclear weapon.

On no fewer than four separate occasions, Bush flat-out lied about Iraq's nuclear capabilities. Bush took already exaggerated estimations about Iraq's alleged nuclear threat to the U.S. and stretched them even further. The intelligence community, as wrong and as biased as it might have been, told Bush that as of 2002 Iraq was at least five to seven years away from developing a nuclear weapon. Bush looked at that information, deemed it insufficient to scare the nation into supporting his war, and then knowingly and deliberately lied about America's vulnerability to Iraq's nuclear terror.

Long before David Kay and Charles Duelfer confirmed what many of us already suspected, Bush knew there wouldn't be mushroom clouds in Manhattan if Iraq weren't invaded. I'm just not sure what's more appalling: that Bush lied to take us to war or that two separate investigative bodies were so blatantly willing to cover for him.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4131492 - 05/04/05 08:27 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

it is by now well-known that the intelligence community is solely to blame for the false promise that Iraq possessed chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons.



Wrong. The Bush administration is the one solely to blame for the intelligence failure. They would only listen to the intelligence they wanted to.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: 1stimer]
    #4132012 - 05/04/05 12:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What a waste of time reading that garbage... and I thought Rush Limbaugh was bad about using circular arguments...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: 1stimer]
    #4132149 - 05/04/05 01:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Wouldn't they both be to blame? More so the administration for not acting on it, although the intelligence agencies as well for allowing them to not act on it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4133101 - 05/04/05 04:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, yes, yes.  Bush, Bush, Bush.  Blame, blame, blame.  He is also no doubt to blame for the UN, British, Italian, French, etc. intelligence failures.  All of which said the same thing.  Blah, blah, blah. :stonedjerk:


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4133144 - 05/04/05 04:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:rotfl:

I'm not asserting blame where it isn't do. I'm wholly non-partisan, if a dem fucked up this bad, I'd tear him a new one as well.

French intelligence didn't say that, the French had investements in Iraq why they didn't want to see it fall, as Saddam owed France some $$. The US wanted him to fall for oil, and future staging grounds for the middle east. Everyone has an interest in this war, I'm not going to sidestep that fact.

I'm not even going to bitch about whether the motivation for oil, and corporate interests were just or not, as it already occured, and theirs no stopping it now. However, the methods employed to gain the oil subverted international laws and made the UN look like a bigger joke then it already is, which isn't a good thing considering other countries may go against the UN which could further destabilize international politics; and cause more war as a result of the UN being shown to be powerless in respects to upholding its decisions.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4133185 - 05/04/05 04:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What oil? The UN was already a joke and on the take. Numerous intelligence agencies asserted Saddass had WMD (not that it matters). Once again, what oil have we gotten that we wouldn't already have been able to buy anyway? Fucking Chalabi just got appointed oil minister and we cut him off months ago. Do you think he's in our pocket and will soon be selling us oil for less than market price?


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4133232 - 05/04/05 04:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm
:shrug:

The intelligence agencies knew full well that he didn't have them. We can go back to the fact that they used old documents from the gulf war.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/04/05 04:59 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4133299 - 05/04/05 05:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Nice little bit of editorial drivel from the arch-whackjob Greg Palast. I'd fisk it but it's not here and I don't know how to put it in a post.
If you think the intelligence agencies knew he didn't have them you must have some inside knowledge, since they all said he did. How about this, find a link dated before March 2003 wherein a reputable news source reported that there was an inteligence agency (NOT MUSLIM) which stated there were no WMDs (not that that matters). As to the old documents, well, they said he had them. He said he had them. They were his own documents. He agreed to destroy them and allow that destruction to be verified by close inspection. He had to account for all the WMDs listed in those documents. He didn't. Enough said.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4133326 - 05/04/05 05:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/06/iraq.wmd.report/

I'll leave you to find it... you require the proof, I already Know it. Why do you always have to make so many specifications and assert that USA is always right in its endeavors?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4133384 - 05/04/05 05:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Once again, you made an assertion of fact and couldn't back it up. 5 links, none to the point. This last is Oct 7, 2004. I don't always assert that the US is right. I just don't let unsupported allegations go without challenge. You don't ever see me supporting the drug prohibition (you also don't ever see me supporting the lunatic ravings of Anna and the new troll LSDEmpire either).

I aint searching for your unicorn.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4133397 - 05/04/05 05:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:lol: I'm not holding you to all your assertions, although I should. I provided info, if it isn't sufficient, :shrug: find it on your own. I don't see the need to draw this out like it was last time.

You know damn well it isn't a Unicorn as well :wink:. You just don't want to face the truth.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4133430 - 05/04/05 05:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, please, hold me big boy, you savage rascal. None, not one, zero, zip, nada, of your links supported your assertion that intelligence agencies knew ahead of time that there were no WMDs. As you know by now, I don't really care whether there were or there weren't. All I care about was that he was in violation of the inspection requirements.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4133734 - 05/04/05 06:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:lol: Yeah... I'm fully aware that you don't care if the original premise of the war was justified or not.

http://www.ceip.org/files/pdf/Iraq3Chap2.pdf
Here's some info about them knowing ahead of time, although it was written well after the event. Read the first few pages.

How is it any different with Saddam breaking the rules with the UN and the weapon inspections and the USA attacking him without going through the UN and attempting to avert the war? What is the difference if any? How can you use that as a good reason to wage war?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
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Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4133778 - 05/04/05 06:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, and what about America's WMD's? We're the OG's of WMD; we made, and used them first... and have the most of them. Somehow I doubt that's even an issue for you.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 27 days
Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4136153 - 05/05/05 03:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

He is also no doubt to blame for the UN, British, Italian, French, etc. intelligence failures. All of which said the same thing. Blah, blah, blah.





Err correct me if im wrong but the UN inspectors couldnt find any weapons.

The so called British intelligence has been shown to be of a very dubious quality and also subject to the same kind of unbelievable politcal spin as the US intelligence.

As Psychoactive has pointed out the French were wholly opposed to the war and therefore did not present any evidence to support it.

I dont really remember seeing much information coming from the Italians but as they are crawling up Bush's butt its hardly surprising if they came up with the same kind of bull as the British and US intelligence agencies is it?

It really is sad that you cant admit Bush and Co have propagated a war based on lies to serve their own twisted plans. In fact its not just sad its disturbing.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 27 days
Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4136161 - 05/05/05 04:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

If you think the intelligence agencies knew he didn't have them you must have some inside knowledge, since they all said he did. How about this, find a link dated before March 2003 wherein a reputable news source reported that there was an inteligence agency (NOT MUSLIM) which stated there were no WMDs (not that that matters)




Sorry to piss on your fireworks but you must be aware of Rice and Powells comments pre-2003 regarding the non-existence of WMDs and the effective containment of Iraq. Do you think they just made this up or do you think its likely their information came from the intelligence commuinity?

Edit:spelling


--------------------
Always Smi2le


Edited by GazzBut (05/05/05 04:01 AM)


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Last seen: 4 months, 27 days
Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4140621 - 05/06/05 03:49 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Zappa, Logical arguement encountered: run away! *SPLAT by Seuss*

No FLAMES! You have been warned. I don't like to ban, and when I do it tends to be for a long long time. -Seuss


Edited by Seuss (05/06/05 08:04 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: GazzBut]
    #4140979 - 05/06/05 07:33 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Please provide a link to said Rice and Powell quotes. Or to the reputable news report previously requested.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 27 days
Re: What the Pre-War Intelligence Reports Won't Tell You About Iraq's Nukes [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4141038 - 05/06/05 08:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Watch em with your own eyes!

Link

Although I cant believe you arent aware of this already as it must have been brought up on here about a thousand times!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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