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Anonymous

Re: Believing [Re: Swami]
    #413798 - 10/04/01 03:24 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

>>You have it backwards. First off, science cannot disprove some flight of imagination. However, it was the people claiming that astral travel was possible and amenable to proof, but under controlled circumstances were unable to validate their claims.

Which is exactly the problem. The soul has no reason to prove itself to science. "Controlled Circumstances" usually involve a person in an uncomfortable environment, scientists all around, and a variety of sensors attached to every part of the body. Who would want to travel out of body in this fashion?
Aside from OBE's, there have been several incidents where clairvoyency has been proven in a laborotory setting, repeatedly.
A person was lying in one room, with blank walls and no view into anywhere else. In another room, a set of random numbers were above the door, facing the wall..only the person who put them up knew what the numbers were.
The clairvoyent person was asked to "see" the numbers as he claimed he could do. He did so, consistently, guessing the right numbers (in the correct order) 9 out of 10 times, they repeated this trial several times, changing the numbers each time, and he only got more accurate.
Of course, the scientists said he was cheating by using some external means of viewing the numbers (even though he was checked thoroughly before he went into the room, and was wearing the clothes they gave him) so the report was never available to mainstream media.
Since you probably think I'm making this up, I'll try and find a report written by a "scientist" that you can read.


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InvisibleMokshaMan
enthusiast
Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 280
Re: Believing [Re: ]
    #413813 - 10/04/01 03:39 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Just doing the same experiment with two seperate people and 4 objects, the same type of experiment was done. They expected the resultes to be about 25% just based on statistical luck; however, the results were consistently at 34% with almost everyone they tested(there were of course the anomalies, but I think its was something like 95% of the people were at 34%). This does seem to indicate that our sciences aren't exact and don't tell us everything. I think anyone that would say they do, is foolish. I would argue that science is the best thing we've found to explain the natural world thus far and will only get better.



--------------------
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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Anonymous

Re: Believing [Re: MokshaMan]
    #413857 - 10/04/01 04:15 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

I agree. I must state however, that I believe science will only get better when it has united with spirituality, and dropped all of the ignorant concepts of the past in light of new knowledge. Science has a hard time with this, since they are so used to doing things a certain way, that when presented with new information, instead of re-evaluating their procedures, they discredit the information as non-scientific or that it does not conform to their theories.
When science cannot explain something, they look for the answer, and develop a "theory" None of the theories can be proven until all the facts are present, which is impossible for so many things in our very limited third dimensional society.
Science will only get better through a combination of normal discovery and evolution, and being told what is fact by higher evolved beings who have "been there" and "seen that"


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Believing [Re: ]
    #413961 - 10/04/01 05:34 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Which is exactly the problem. The soul has no reason to prove itself to science. "Controlled Circumstances" usually involve a person in an uncomfortable environment, scientists all around, and a variety of sensors attached to every part of the body. Who would want to travel out of body in this fashion?

A powerlifter makes the extraordinary claim that he can bench press 600 pounds. A karate expert makes the extraordinary claim that he can break 10 cinder blocks with one blow of his hand. An Olympic gymnast makes the extraordinary claim that he can do a triple flyaway from the high bar.

How could they possibly do these astounding feats with all those pesky spectators there to disrupt their psychic energy?

It's called training and focus.

Only in the nonsensical world of the "supernatural", must everyone in the audience already be a believer so that they are ripe to be duped.




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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