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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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the middle of the road....
    #4113341 - 04/30/05 02:17 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

I am a moderate. I believe in moderation as the ultimate tool for sensibility and good judgment. I often make a post with a particular view point that is embraced by extremists from one side of the spectrum or the other. These people often do not see that I am expressing only one view that I hold on that subject. I initially will be hailed as enlightened, but then I usually make a statement to moderate my previous post and put it in perspective. At this time I am usually denounced, belittled, or outright called names buy extremists on both sides of the issue who think I belong to the opposite camp. I am left dodging cars...and a few trucks...in the middle of the road. The showing respect to children thread is a good example. I first say that we should respect children and I take hits from those who promote spanking. Then I reveal that I do believe spanking has a limited place in child rearing at which point I am denounced by the extremists who originally applauded my view on respect.Before it is over I have been insulted by both extremes. My point here is that there is no wisdom in extremism. Moderation is the key to discipline. Making flat out, no exception, generalizations on almost (I did say ALMOST) any matter is flawed reasoning.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4113487 - 04/30/05 02:57 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

True. And to know the middle, it's necessary to know both extremes, to know where to draw the middle line. Sometimes is it necessary to push boundaries in order to discover the true limits, the true extremes?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4113606 - 04/30/05 03:26 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

I have been an extremist on issues in my past, but I realized that being practical is far more important. Extremist ideas just are not pragmatic or truly useful in most cases.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4113869 - 04/30/05 08:51 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Is "anti-spanking" an extreme view?

No wisdom in extremism? All who make it to become no 1 in their respective niche, are always extremists. You watch sports, true?


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: dorkus]
    #4113891 - 04/30/05 09:02 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

I personally consider spanking of any kind an 'extreme' action which naturally comes from an 'extreme' view. I aslo consider sports hunting an 'extreme' action that comes from an 'extreme' view. Whether something is 'extreme' or not is totally subjective to the individual. Maybe Adolf Hitler did'nt consider his view to be 'extreme' in the least. :rolleyes:


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: egghead1]
    #4113900 - 04/30/05 09:09 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

extreme
adj extremer, extremest

1. Very high, or highest, in degree or intensity.

Thesaurus: utmost, exceptional.
2. Very far, or furthest, in any direction, especially out from the centre.

Thesaurus: remote, outermost, farthest.
3. Very violent or strong.
4. Not moderate; severe.

Example: extreme measures
Thesaurus: intemperate, immoderate, imprudent, excessive, inordinate, unreasonable, radical.
noun

1. Either of two people or things as far, or as different, as possible from each other.
2. The highest limit; the greatest degree of any state or condition.

Thesaurus: limit, ultimate, utmost, climax, extremity, top, edge, end.
Derivative: extremely
adverb

To an extreme degree.
Idiom: go to extremes

To take action beyond what is thought to be reasonable.
Thesaurus: be excessive, be immoderate, go too far, overdo things, go overboard.
Idiom: in the extreme

To the highest degree.
Etymology: 15c: from Latin extremus, from exterus on the outside.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: the middle of the road.... is relative !?! [Re: dorkus]
    #4113904 - 04/30/05 09:13 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

I think we need to acknowledge that even the middle way of buddhism is an extreme way by todays extreme standards (western). our standards would be considered extreme from a buddhist country's standards. when the world has become extreme in its normality, extreme action, or way of life, is needed (though in objective reality it is not extreme).


Edited by dr_mandelbrot (04/30/05 09:14 AM)


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: the middle of the road.... is relative !?! [Re: dorkus]
    #4113944 - 04/30/05 09:42 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
I think we need to acknowledge that even the middle way of buddhism is an extreme way by todays extreme standards (western). our standards would be considered extreme from a buddhist country's standards. when the world has become extreme in its normality, extreme action, or way of life, is needed (though in objective reality it is not extreme).




This is a very interesting point. So, then, in a world where two extreme modes of thinking have developed (western standards versus eastern standards) would the middle way as taught by buddhism not become a balance of eastern and western standards? :smile:

I only mention this because anyone who practices spirituality with eastern standards in a western civilization is actually obligated to do this in order to maintain their own balance in life.


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OfflineHD590
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Re: the middle of the road.... is relative !?! [Re: dorkus]
    #4113965 - 04/30/05 09:58 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

the right way is the way of the majority, and since everyone is fractioned off in every stance (religion,nationality,age), there will always be conflict of opinion.

oohh yeah, my point was i find it easier to come to an agreement with someone when they arn't conditioned by a majority.


Edited by HD590 (04/30/05 10:07 AM)


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: the middle of the road.... is relative !?! [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #4114227 - 04/30/05 11:48 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

"So, then, in a world where two extreme modes of thinking have developed (western standards versus eastern standards) would the middle way as taught by buddhism not become a balance of eastern and western standards?"

I don't think we live in a world were two extreme modes of thinking have developed. The middle way as taught by buddhism cannot be seen as a move towards the western culture at all imo. It is often even more extreme (from western viewpoint) than average eastern culture. Is it not a teaching recommending us to go the middle way, the way of least resistance, towards happiness. The serious practicing buddhists living in ie Thailand who strive to keep walking the middle way, most certainly don't embrace more western styles of living.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: egghead1]
    #4116475 - 04/30/05 10:50 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

I am glad you posted this. This is a great example of extremism. You offer broad generalizations that are poorly thought out in that you see only absolutes. You demonstrate that your ideas should apply to all without exception and that you possess the ultimate moral authority. This "guru" attitude is the personification of extremism and intolerance.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: the middle of the road.... is relative !?! [Re: dorkus]
    #4116481 - 04/30/05 10:52 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

I am not discussing Buddhism, spanking, or hunting. I am discussing extremism in all of it's forms. The middle way I refer to is plain and simple moderation.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4116565 - 04/30/05 11:18 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I am glad you posted this. This is a great example of extremism. You offer broad generalizations that are poorly thought out in that you see only absolutes. You demonstrate that your ideas should apply to all without exception and that you possess the ultimate moral authority. This "guru" attitude is the personification of extremism and intolerance.




When I look to nature as guide, she mostly leads by example. Yet in times of need to secure survival I have seen a mother bear swat her cubs. I agree with you Huehuecyotl, the art of moderation is rare in most humans, even those who see themselves walking the middle path. :thumbup: :heart:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984 Happy Birthday
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4116710 - 04/30/05 11:57 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Why drive when you can fly? :confused:

You're always in the middle when you're in the air.


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4116754 - 05/01/05 12:10 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Depends on what your flying...and what you consider the middle.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984 Happy Birthday
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4116783 - 05/01/05 12:18 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

:thumbup: :yesnod:

Sorry, had to take it a little off topic.

I agree with your post though, espoused absolution (re: extremism) doesn't get anyone anywhere.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4116817 - 05/01/05 12:27 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

I like your definition (espoused absolution) it really captures the spirit of it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984 Happy Birthday
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4116823 - 05/01/05 12:29 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

:smile: glad you like it, it's how I see it... then again I live in a fantasy world where fake plastic palm trees are as real as those lining the streets of LA.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineHD590
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Registered: 03/27/05
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4117745 - 05/01/05 06:25 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I am glad you posted this. This is a great example of extremism. You offer broad generalizations that are poorly thought out in that you see only absolutes. You demonstrate that your ideas should apply to all without exception and that you possess the ultimate moral authority. This "guru" attitude is the personification of extremism and intolerance.




Are you replying to me?
My point about the majority always being right is that... e.g. if a nazi germany persisted and it's outlook influenced the majority over the world, whos is left to say genocide is wrong... the majority breeds safety in ignorance.. thus it's easier to come to an agreement with someone when they know there own concepts inside out, because they can better facilitate moderation.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984 Happy Birthday
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Re: the middle of the road.... [Re: HD590]
    #4117766 - 05/01/05 06:36 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

HD590 said:
My point about the majority always being right is that... e.g. if a nazi germany persisted and it's outlook influenced the majority over the world, whos is left to say genocide is wrong... the majority breeds safety in ignorance.. thus it's easier to come to an agreement with someone when they know there own concepts inside out, because they can better facilitate moderation.




Just a thought... perhaps those that are subject to the genocide?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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