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Offlinedets
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Registered: 11/12/02
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Bulk Cultivation Question
    #4105550 - 04/28/05 02:11 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm a long time user and have been cultivating for years in my spare time. This site has been a wealth of information for me and although i don't post, i try to lurk as often as i can. I've already grown marijuana and mushrooms for quite some time and i need some advice on my next project.


I've now come to a point where I'd like to try an extremely large bulk grow. I'm looking for yield


My question is:

What type of provisions would i need for a target grow of 15 - 20 LBS per 2 months? Space? Ideal Space?

I'm thinking of running a level to level fruiting chambers while having a completely seperate case for incubating.

Basically i'm looking for outside tips and help to point me in the right direction.

That 15-20 LB mark needs to be a reality. Please help me get the information i need to make this happen.


Thanks in advance.


--------------------
"patriotism is the virtue of the vicious"


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Offlinedets
higher mind andeducation
Registered: 11/12/02
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: dets]
    #4105571 - 04/28/05 02:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

by the way, i'll be conducting this in a country where there are no legal consequences for growing these mushrooms.

I wouldn't attempt to do this in a country where it is illegal.


--------------------
"patriotism is the virtue of the vicious"


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: dets]
    #4105647 - 04/28/05 02:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Assuming 3 ounces per 5 pound bag of h/poo and 2 quarts of WBS, Id guess 80 casings that size (a 5 lb bag of poo with 2 quarts of WBS as spawn) in the two month span. It would take 2 months to complete the process start to finish of 3 flushes so you'd have to do all 80 casings at once to have it all at the end of 2 months...so your talking 400 lbs of wet hpoo (around 120 lbs of dry hpoo) and 2 quarts of WBS is about 2 pounds, so 150ish pounds of WBS. It would also require the space to incubate and fruit 80 of these:



Now if your just talking every 2 months, you could do 10 tubs (50 lbs of poo and 20 lbs of WBS) every week. That would require the space to incubate and fruit 40 of those casings still (those containers are about 9x13) and the work of created 20 lbs of spawn, inoculating it, spawning it to 50 lbs of poo that you also pasteurized, casing 10 casings, fruiting 10 casings, and harvesting 10 casings every week.

I hope you have a crew of about 4-5 people to help you out.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Registered: 11/13/04
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: dets]
    #4105834 - 04/28/05 04:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

55 gallon rubbermaids spawned 5" deep, 1" casing layer would produce, in my estimates, about 5 pounds total. Four of these would produce about 20lbs a month. I wouldn't go for small trays, I'd go for GIGANTIC ones. Use an ultrasonic to keep them humid. Good luck.


--------------------


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: SoopaX]
    #4105868 - 04/28/05 05:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

How did you come about your estimate? Whats the surface area? And how much bulk substrate would it take to fill that size (need SA for that).


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlineknobenheimer
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4106172 - 04/28/05 10:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Scat, you get about 3oz dry per (9x13) tub? Just curious, im looking to go a similiar route that you have in that image.

-knob


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: knobenheimer]
    #4106256 - 04/28/05 11:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Over 3 flushes, thats a good estimate. It can go up or down though


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinemushroommark
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Registered: 10/01/04
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4109539 - 04/29/05 03:13 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Scatty Scat man! Congrats...you've made it to my "read all the posts every day" club.

I don't have the time to read up as much as I'd like so I just check all your new posts everyday and it keeps me pretty updated on all the hot topics, new ideas, learning, etc. Pretty exclusive club w/ only 1 other member. Can you guess? lol...sorry I'm kinda crazy tonight. lol

okay, now back on topic:
Do you think it really takes you two full months to get from start to finish? Are including spawn colonization time?

A few of my tubs finished in under a month for one flush... that's not including spawn colonization time. Pretty much from spawning the substrate to harvest of the first flush.

I just didn't keep track that close after the first flush on dates, so I'm wondering if I would have been looking at aprox. 1 more month for the next two flushes to follow?

In other words...how long from spawning substrate til the first flush? Then the second? And the third?

Hope that makes sense. I'm just trying to keep my timetables in line....

Thanks bro

Markymark


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: mushroommark]
    #4109846 - 04/29/05 05:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

>Do you think it really takes you two full months to get from start to finish? Are including spawn colonization time?

Yes and yes, depending. The way I generally do things for bulk runs like that is grain to grain. Start some from spores, and then each quart into 1-2 dozen more quarts. The first jars starting from spores are usually done in less then 2 weeks (but figure 2 for eveness sake), then g2g transfers, and those are done in about a week. Then those get spawned to bulk and that should be done and ready to be cased in a bout a week. Now your in a month and everythings ready to be cased. Cased and incubate for 3 days, fruit and if pinning in 4 days, thats 1 week into second month and first flush is just starting. How quickly at this point, really depends on the strain but thats 3 weeks left in the month to finish the 1st, start and finish the 2nd and start and finish the 3rd flushes. I think 3 weeks is pretty reasonable for 3 flushes...it often can take even longer though. Just the way I figure things.. Usually the shrooms mature in 3-9 days though (usually closer to 5-7) and then theres a few days before the next flush starts (usually 1-3 IME).

Of course there are tons of ways of looking at this....but this is a project I just dont think you fully understand (speaking to dets). Your talking 100-150 POUNDS of fresh mushrooms, which even at 100% biological efficiency, youd need 100-150 pounds of dry substrate to do, IIRC. Up to 150-200% (maybe) could be done if you really get your shit down, but I doubt with that many casings. The more casings a person has to take care of, the less care each gets.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Registered: 11/06/04
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4109855 - 04/29/05 05:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

" The more casings a person has to take care of, the less care each gets."

I agree with that 100%...

Unless of course you have a "team" helping you :smirk:

What country are you in by the way?...

I know that where it's legal, it's only legal to a certain extent...:smirk:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4109876 - 04/29/05 05:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Unless of course you have a "team" helping you

Thats why I said "A person", becaaue the more casing a single person has even on the team, the less each gets :smile: I could have said each person, but that would have limited it to only a team thing. I was thinking to include even a team though :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: dets]
    #4110511 - 04/29/05 12:12 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

dets, cubensis will always give you at least 1.5 pound per square foot per first flush and about half that for the second if you are working with a known strain and a production bed depth (4-5 inches deep). Of course if you screw it up and don't get a decent pin set, it won't give you hardly anything, but let's assume you know how to grow pretty well if you are talking about this. Scatman likes shallow 2" beds (as do I), but they don't give you the kind of yields per square foot you are looking for which is why his tray number estimates are so high.

I would go for 4" deep horse manure trays. Make your rye spawn in spawn bags, not quart jars. A spawn bag can easily hold about 7 quarts and takes a tiny fraction of the room to pressure cook/incubate and self-heats better. I'd stick with 1 square foot a trays to avoid the excessive weight of larger trays and isolate failures. To be on the safe side, I would run 10, 1 square foot trays at a depth of 4" with 1" casing at all times and 4 spawn bags at all times. Keep at least three liquid cultures going for innoculations of the spawn, two for backups.

I wouldn't go past the second flush if I were trying to really grow for yield. That third flush isn't that impressive if you are flushing heavy like you should on the first two.


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4110696 - 04/29/05 01:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4110750 - 04/29/05 01:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
dets, cubensis will always give you at least 1.5 pound per square foot per first flush and about half that for the second if you are working with a known strain and a production bed depth (4-5 inches deep). Of course if you screw it up and don't get a decent pin set, it won't give you hardly anything, but let's assume you know how to grow pretty well if you are talking about this. Scatman likes shallow 2" beds (as do I), but they don't give you the kind of yields per square foot you are looking for which is why his tray number estimates are so high.

I would go for 4" deep horse manure trays. Make your rye spawn in spawn bags, not quart jars. A spawn bag can easily hold about 7 quarts and takes a tiny fraction of the room to pressure cook/incubate and self-heats better. I'd stick with 1 square foot a trays to avoid the excessive weight of larger trays and isolate failures. To be on the safe side, I would run 10, 1 square foot trays at a depth of 4" with 1" casing at all times and 4 spawn bags at all times. Keep at least three liquid cultures going for innoculations of the spawn, two for backups.

I wouldn't go past the second flush if I were trying to really grow for yield. That third flush isn't that impressive if you are flushing heavy like you should on the first two.




Good info too...

You do mean 1.5 pounds wet dont you? 1.5 pounds dry off a single square foot cant be right....so 10 casings even every week at that amount is only 1.5 lbs a week... Adding second flush on from the week before and thats like 2-2.5 pounds dried maybe.

1.5 pounds wet even seems to small though, thats only like an ounce dry for a square foot. I could see 2-4 ounces dry off a container like I pictured, but the two pictures above are 1.5 ounces dried...I couldnt imagine it would be possible to fit 16 times the amount onto those casings as they are, no matter how thick the poo is made. I got some of the same casings that are more like 4 inches right now though, and pinning much better (peat not coir based) so I'll be able to see what I get there.

As far as substrate thickness goes, sure if your trying to get yeild per square foot, thicker is better...however when it comes to preperation of shit loads of substrate by one or few people, it can be tough to create that much, and I think for yeild per substrate, 2-3 inches is more optimal. If you got plenty of substrate and limited square footage then thicker would be of course.. IMO anyway.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinemattymonkey
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4110871 - 04/29/05 01:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

so well.. since we are discussing it..

this tek is entirely speculation and hearsay
bulk pasteurization of entire room tek
build a room whatever size you want that you will fruit in(*IMPORTANT make sure this room has adequeate ventalation and drainage!), use shelving of some sort that has good drainage, you can make it easily enough with good supports and hardware cloth.. fill room with 2-3week or more old manure that has had water run threw it already... throw in a big 55,000 btu propane heater and crank it.. water substrate thouraghly before and during this process.. follow phase II temps/times as outlined in GGMM or TMC
yes, it works, not for me but for some people!
spawn heavy and have fun pickin! :smile:


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OfflineAbermelin
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: mattymonkey]
    #4111299 - 04/29/05 03:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

heres how it goes down, you buy your materials, get through the growing process and produce 15-20 (240-320 ounces), at $100 an ounce street you decide to sell it to the dealers for about $50 an ounce, and thats being extremely nice, so your getting a profit of $12,000-$16,000 every 2 months, thats if this operation can be finished within that time. So once you operate for a some months, someone rats you out, finds your setup, or some unlucky event happens, either way something will eventually happen. you get 20+ years of prison, the cops freeze your bank account and take all your money, thats if you werent smart enough to get it into a foreign account, and you become property of a big black man who rails you in the ass untill you get caught in a knife fight and die.

unless your located in amsterdam.....


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4111615 - 04/29/05 05:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This dude is talking 20 pounds DRY every other month?!?! He didn't specify, so I thought he was talking wet. NO WONDER WE HAD SUCH DIFFERENT NUMBERS! Forget everything I said if we're talking 10lbs/month dry. That's more mushrooms that I can even imagine.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4111638 - 04/29/05 05:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

No, I was talking it is easy to expect at least 1.5 pounds WET per square foot for the first flush. You might even get closer to 2 pounds wet per square foot for the first flush if you are lucky. Sorry about all this confusion. I just thought the guy was talking 20 pounds wet per 2 months. I guess he's talking about 222 (assume 9% dry matter) wet pounds per 2 months.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4111649 - 04/29/05 05:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hmm you are right, he didnt specify. I did assume dry. However hes talking of legal countries, and most have that whole fresh are legal thing (I know thats changing alot of places though). You could very well be right, and in which case, listen to what he said, the numbers are fine for fresh weight, and that is quite feasible to do.

If you really are in a legal country, check out www.magicmushroomforum.co.uk too, they know alot about the (fresh) legal mushrooms business...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Bulk Cultivation Question [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4111654 - 04/29/05 05:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

PS - And if we are talking 20 pounds dry every two months, I agree with scatmanrav's numbers.


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