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OfflineAbermelin
Gnome Hat

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 394
Loc: In The Mycelial Network
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: psilocyben]
    #4097865 - 04/26/05 02:26 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyben said:
Quote:

Abermelin said:
Biologists are taught to only PC something 15psi for 15 minutes to sterilize, although most shroomers are taught for 45 which is excessive, 30 mins is good.





could you show me info supporting this abermelin?
reason i ask is that i have heard otherwise for some time and i'm curious what you're source is.




i have this file called lab_techniques.pdf that was posted in an older thread. Its a biologists guide to sterilization and other fungi related processes. you can search it, i dont know the exact thread. it gives a chart of the correlation between PSI and cooking time.


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: Abermelin]
    #4097927 - 04/26/05 05:04 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Dude, stop spreading your misinformation.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offline_JJ_
PsychedelicRevolutionary
Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 369
Loc: NSW, Australia
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: SoopaX]
    #4097954 - 04/26/05 06:01 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

"In a laboratory, items are sterilised in autoclaves at 121?C for 15 minutes or at 126?C for 10 minutes. The times mentioned here are average sterilisation times. The time that objects and materials are autoclaved depends on their size as large objects take longer to sterilise. Also, the autoclave should be loosely packed so that the steam can circulate around the objects and so heat them to the correct temperature."
- From here.

The key is it depends on the size of the object being sterilized. A couple of quart jars of rye grain will take longer than some pf jars. It will take longer to heat the center of the jar to the same temperature as the outside if the jar is larger.
15-20 minutes @ 15psi should be fine for a batch of PF jars in my opinion, but if you're doing quarts 30-40 mins is a better idea. No point saving yourself ten to fifteen minutes when your whole grow can be ruined.


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OfflinePhotoguy
Drunk andJobless

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 553
Loc: Drunk in Texas
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: _JJ_]
    #4098004 - 04/26/05 07:46 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not trying to argue here, but I PC for 90 minutes, and if my PC is all full, i generally will do a boil of the other jars for a minimum of 2.5 hours. I haven't had the need to build a glove box yet, although I'm sure i should.

I highly doubt that PC'ing for a long time will alter your water content that much as to hinder your growth. Hell, i was drunk and PC'd one night, let it cool down, the next evening i got drunk and PC'd the same jars again. Well, those jars are thriving so far, and frankly this has been the best grow, because I have had zero contams show up. Who knows??

I would just say this, do the jars for 90 minutes. Whats the big freakin deal you impatient people, its going to take you several weeks to get through a grow anyways, whats a lil more time?


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You gotta check yo' self before you wreck yo' self

B, Z, F, Burma, Cambodian, Golden Teacher, Puerto Rico, South American, Costa Rica, African

My name is Ender Wiggen and I will own you soon. Bean is my second in command, he is PC'ing jars right now.


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Offlinepsilocyben
bad guy

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 1,026
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: _JJ_]
    #4098190 - 04/26/05 10:33 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

_JJ_ said:
The key is it depends on the size of the object being sterilized.




agreed;
the link provided was probably speaking in regards to agar plates or something.


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OfflineAbermelin
Gnome Hat

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 394
Loc: In The Mycelial Network
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: psilocyben]
    #4098358 - 04/26/05 11:53 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

_JJ_ said:
The key is it depends on the size of the object being sterilized.





makes sense. you prob would have to increase times if your were PCing a quart jar of sub, but i would go by the listed psi/times when doing half pints, as they are not large or thick enough to need excessive PCing, and i dont think the starter of this thread is doing quart brf jars. once you get past a certain length of time, your just cooking your jars.

but as far as over PCing goes, i used to have problems with the top of the cake drying out with brf/verm cakes, as that type of substrate holds moisture poorly, but this could have been attributed to air exchange. but whatever, if you encounter this problem, go with grains.


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InvisibleSemilanceata
No god, no boss

Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 841
Loc: República Federal Íbera
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: TheProdigy]
    #4098387 - 04/26/05 12:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If you prepared your cambodian jars same way as the creepers, and inoc. the same way, I would say your print/syringe is contamed.


--------------------
Sr_Setahongo


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Offlinepsilocyben
bad guy

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 1,026
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: Semilanceata]
    #4098398 - 04/26/05 12:13 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

he only sterilized his needle once before, and once during with flame. no alcohol at all.

it's likely that this was his problem.

if not from a previous grow,
was the source of the spores a user or a vendor?


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InvisibleSemilanceata
No god, no boss

Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 841
Loc: República Federal Íbera
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: psilocyben]
    #4098424 - 04/26/05 12:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I thought he said the needle gets flamed till red hot. Anyway, if a scalpel, inoc.loop or needle gets flame sterilized, why wipe some alcohol afterwards? Isn?t fire the best sterilizer?


--------------------
Sr_Setahongo


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Offlinepsilocyben
bad guy

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 1,026
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: Semilanceata]
    #4098439 - 04/26/05 12:34 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

first, to cool it.
if you were to flame-sterilize inbetween each inoculation point,
think about the amount of time you'd waste waiting for the needle to cool each time. hardly practical.
if no flowhood or glove-box to innoc in,
then you don't want that needle sitting in open air for a few minutes while it cools before it goes in the jar.

i had contamination problems ONE time. and that was when the needle was wiped down between jars, and not between each inoculation site.
i always flame sterilize when i begin to kill anything inside the needle.


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Offline_JJ_
PsychedelicRevolutionary
Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 369
Loc: NSW, Australia
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: psilocyben]
    #4100077 - 04/26/05 08:20 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I don't see why you would need to wait for it to cool.. just insert it a couple of seconds later, it'll cool down the second you start ejecting spore solution (or starts melting the polyfill :P) Really though, I wait about 2-3 seconds and the it does not damage the polyfill at all.


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Offlineoysterguy63
60's child

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 463
Loc: God's Country
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: _JJ_]
    #4100561 - 04/26/05 10:51 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I just did very first grow with Cambo's, but utilized cakes as a rookie. Had six cakes on perlite in an aquarium with a submersible heater and a stone to provide some oxygen....temp at 74 F. Got my substrate from pfjars and all six just whooped ass on the first flush.



--------------------
Oysters...yuummmmm


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Offlinepsilocyben
bad guy

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 1,026
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: oysterguy63]
    #4100990 - 04/27/05 01:34 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i imagine that your spore solution might cool down the needle,
but isn't it also going to heat up your soluution as it comes out.

obviously, it has worked for you, right?
just trying to be objective and make sure everyone, (including both you and i) learns the most efficient way of doing things.


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Offlinestarseed1066
officially hosed

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 325
Loc: close enough to get mysel...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Cambodian Contamination Problem =( [Re: psilocyben]
    #4101208 - 04/27/05 02:21 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i havent had a problem with heat sterilizing the needle and injecting right away... the first drop or two might be pretty hot but the subsequent 1ml is definitely not too hot to cause problems.


--------------------
Under his instruction, I taped drumsticks to his head and turned him into a sort of mummy, or perhaps a caterpiller in a cocoon. He remains this way for about three hours, making bizarre noises, pretending to be a new species that must learn to walk and talk and eat, etc. And he communicates with other life forms by way of the antennae on his head. Eventually we jam a tube from a waterbong into it's mouth and figure he's learned all he needs to know.


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