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GnuBobo
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Alcohol to kill living mold and spores?
#4100492 - 04/26/05 08:33 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm fairly sure that alcohol kills live mold but as for spores...I don't know. I tried searching the archives and I didn't find a satisfactory answer. I know that bleach will kill spores and organisms, but I don't know the range of potential contaminants that alcohol will sterilize/kill on contact. Anyone have an answer for this? Thanks.
-------------------- Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!
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Holydiver
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: GnuBobo]
#4100512 - 04/26/05 08:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yep, rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) will kill all bacteria and spores. That and ethyl alcohol are equivalent to bleach for killing power, just more expensive.
-------------------- To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.
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GnuBobo
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Holydiver]
#4100600 - 04/26/05 09:04 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks!
-------------------- Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!
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_JJ_
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: GnuBobo]
#4101737 - 04/27/05 03:09 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quoting this:
Chlorine ? Chlorine kills bacteria, fungi, viruses and endospores. ? It is an oxidising agent and works by denaturing proteins. ? It is used in the treatment of drinking water. ? Chlorine-based disinfectants are used in the home and laboratory for disinfecting surfaces.
Alcohol ? Alcohol kills bacteria, fungi and some viruses (if left long enough). ? It works by dissolving cell membranes. ? It is used in the laboratory for swabbing benches and disinfecting instruments such as scalpels.
So perhaps alcohol does not, in fact, kill spores?
Edited by _JJ_ (04/27/05 03:12 AM)
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FleaAccela
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: _JJ_]
#4101761 - 04/27/05 03:38 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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chapter 18 - g, sub section i
"Like disinfectants in general, alcohols are ineffective against endospores or many viruses"
http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/~sabedon/biol2032.htm
-------------------- I love rolling... my Katamari!!!
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agar
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: GnuBobo]
#4101768 - 04/27/05 03:43 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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INFO FROM HERE............!
Name: ALCOHOLS Ethyl alcohol (ethanol) and isopropyl alcohol?s are the most frequently used alcohol?s. Formula: Ethanol: CH3CH2?OH Isopropanol: CH3?CH?OH
Inflammable. CH3 Effect: Alcohol?s kill vegetative forms of bacteria (including TB) and fungi,but have no action on spores or viruses (there might, however, be some effect on kappeb?rende vira).Their effect depends on concentration and type of alcohol.
The following three solutions have similar effect: Ethanol 70% , isopropanol 60% and n-propanol 40% 70-80% alcohol inactivates HIV and Hepatitis B in 2-10 minutes.
How does it work: Alcohol?s precipitate proteins and solubilize lipids present in cell membranes. It has a rapid action. Contact time should preferably be 10-30 minutes. Toxicity: Ethanol is absorbent and astringent and dries out the skin. Propanoles are less absorbent, but they might penetrate the skin. The brief irritant action seen on the skin , when alcohol is applied in high concentrations, results from partial precipitation of cellular proteins and from its dehydrating actions. If strong alcohol vapors are inhaled, the irritation causes reflex closure of glottis.
Effect on other materials: Non-corrosive May damage rubber, shellac and plastic Interaction: Synergistic effect together with iodine, chlorhexidin and quaternary ammonium compounds. Alcohol?s are easily inactivated by organic material. Use: Hands, skin and instruments and surfaces: 60-70% ethanol. In this case the effect is not enhanced with higher concentration, as it takes water to practice its effect
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closetgrower
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: agar] 1
#4102039 - 04/27/05 08:45 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- Into this house we're born, into this world we're thrown.
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MycroProphecy
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: agar]
#16553715 - 07/19/12 09:42 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
agar said: INFO FROM HERE............!
Name: ALCOHOLS Ethyl alcohol (ethanol) and isopropyl alcohol?s are the most frequently used alcohol?s. Formula: Ethanol: CH3CH2?OH Isopropanol: CH3?CH?OH
Inflammable. CH3 Effect: Alcohol?s kill vegetative forms of bacteria (including TB) and fungi,but have no action on spores or viruses (there might, however, be some effect on kappeb?rende vira).Their effect depends on concentration and type of alcohol.
The following three solutions have similar effect: Ethanol 70% , isopropanol 60% and n-propanol 40% 70-80% alcohol inactivates HIV and Hepatitis B in 2-10 minutes.
How does it work: Alcohol?s precipitate proteins and solubilize lipids present in cell membranes. It has a rapid action. Contact time should preferably be 10-30 minutes. Toxicity: Ethanol is absorbent and astringent and dries out the skin. Propanoles are less absorbent, but they might penetrate the skin. The brief irritant action seen on the skin , when alcohol is applied in high concentrations, results from partial precipitation of cellular proteins and from its dehydrating actions. If strong alcohol vapors are inhaled, the irritation causes reflex closure of glottis.
Effect on other materials: Non-corrosive May damage rubber, shellac and plastic Interaction: Synergistic effect together with iodine, chlorhexidin and quaternary ammonium compounds. Alcohol?s are easily inactivated by organic material. Use: Hands, skin and instruments and surfaces: 60-70% ethanol. In this case the effect is not enhanced with higher concentration, as it takes water to practice its effect
Very informative. Thank ya.
-------------------- Yummy Shroom Tea Tek for 4 "I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this." MJK
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Doc_T
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: MycroProphecy]
#16554057 - 07/19/12 11:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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In teh seven years since this thread was posted, it's become widely known that alcohol does not kill mold spores.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: GnuBobo]
#21286419 - 02/17/15 04:23 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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old thread, i know.. but i feel that people ignore the potential of acetone, acetone is usually not denatured, it has high evap pressure relative to ethanol and lower BP, meaning it should be very effective for killing bacteria, as ethanol can do if we suppose acetone wouldnt mess up the spores if acetone is filled into a small spraybottle it should be able to kill bacteria and leave totally disinfected spores behind in less than a minute, perhaps less than 20 seconds of the paper or whatever the spores are placed on is slightly heated up
question is whether acetone does or does not kill spores, as it is much less polar and thus a stronger solvent and may be able to break down the spores by dissolving them, where ethanol cannot
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld
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im gonna stick with good sterile technique and iso @ 70%
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Psilicon
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: blindingleaf]
#21286482 - 02/17/15 05:20 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Acetone will fog your SAB permanently, and the reason it isn't denatured is because who the fuck would drink acetone? And what does denaturing have to do with killing spores?
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blindingleaf
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21286489 - 02/17/15 05:27 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
because who the fuck would drink acetone?
when u serve me a drink, please stick it in the fridge, cause i like cold beverage
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Inocuole
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Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: old thread, i know.. but i feel that people ignore the potential of acetone, acetone is usually not denatured, it has high evap pressure relative to ethanol and lower BP, meaning it should be very effective for killing bacteria, as ethanol can do if we suppose acetone wouldnt mess up the spores if acetone is filled into a small spraybottle it should be able to kill bacteria and leave totally disinfected spores behind in less than a minute, perhaps less than 20 seconds of the paper or whatever the spores are placed on is slightly heated up
question is whether acetone does or does not kill spores, as it is much less polar and thus a stronger solvent and may be able to break down the spores by dissolving them, where ethanol cannot
I just wanted to drop in and say fuck you for bumping this thread after acknowledging how old it was, and then not having any good info in your bump.
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Hashish
Knowledge is Power
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Inocuole]
#21287412 - 02/17/15 11:07 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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concrete_666
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Hashish]
#21287610 - 02/17/15 11:51 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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What are your opinions about using everclear...or any 190 proof?
-------------------- Which came first, the chicken or the egg? If heaven was perfect, how was there a fallen Angel, before sin?
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Hashish]
#21287670 - 02/17/15 12:02 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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well in europoor, at least my region.. isopropyl alcohol is very hard if not impossible to come by for whatever reason, and as you add denatonium benzoate to your growing you will about entirely surely get it into your mouth, as if the shrooms doesnt already taste bad enough
as for "Acetone will fog your SAB permanently" i guess it stands for Still Air Box? the idea is to evap the acetone out, this wouldnt require vacuum or dragging the air out of whatever container is used to evap the spores to dryness as acetone has a great evaporative pressure when heated just slightly t*C mmHg vapour pressure 0.56 71.8307 11.32 123.293 22.08 202.111 32.84 318.207 43.6 483.462 54.36 711.703 65.12 1018.63
i accept the fuck you, tho.. i hope you will regain your loss asap
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Hashish
Knowledge is Power
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: concrete_666]
#21287672 - 02/17/15 12:03 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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i was actually gonna ask about the "heads" or "tails" of a shine run. i know you can clean your house with heads lol. but will it kill mold spores? if i can recycle this way it would save me some money.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy
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Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: well in europoor, at least my region.. isopropyl alcohol is very hard if not impossible to come by for whatever reason, and as you add denatonium benzoate to your growing you will about entirely surely get it into your mouth, as if the shrooms doesnt already taste bad enough
In North America, ethanol comes in big, cheap cans denatured with methanol. But benzoates aren't unheard of, and I do know what you're talking about. But there are very few real uses for sanitizers like that, and the only one I ever use it for is hosing down the inside of my still air box. I don't dunk my mushrooms in it, or add it to my substrate.
Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: as for "Acetone will fog your SAB permanently" i guess it stands for Still Air Box? the idea is to evap the acetone out, this wouldnt require vacuum or dragging the air out of whatever container is used to evap the spores to dryness as acetone has a great evaporative pressure when heated just slightly
Yes, it evaporates quite nicely. It also rips the plasticizers and smaller plastic molecules out of the walls of any plastic vessel, rending it translucent but far from transparent. You can't see shit through it anymore, and it has the same milky color that a bottle of fingernail polish remover has. In fact, nail polish remover is made of acetone, and you'll never, ever see it in a clear plastic bottle for this reason.
Feel free to experiment, though. I was just trying to save you a few bucks and a few hours of work.
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JudPie
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21289478 - 02/17/15 04:45 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said:
Yes, it evaporates quite nicely. It also rips the plasticizers and smaller plastic molecules out of the walls of any plastic vessel, rending it translucent but far from transparent. You can't see shit through it anymore, and it has the same milky color that a bottle of fingernail polish remover has. In fact, nail polish remover is made of acetone, and you'll never, ever see it in a clear plastic bottle for this reason.
Feel free to experiment, though. I was just trying to save you a few bucks and a few hours of work.
I may not be a user with a trillion posts, or an award winning chemist, but 5 mins on Google will show you this readily....
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21292657 - 02/18/15 09:23 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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yes.. but the idea remains to evap the acetone out before mixing the spores up with the substrate its all about whether the spores can take the acetone or not anyways, ethanol and other solvents should be capable of pulling plasticizers out of the plastics just aswell
mostly i see plastic 'tubs' made of PP, poly propylene and googling it shortly doesnt turn much up about plasticizers in PP
having alcohol or whatever IN the tub while growing it would be a bad idea anyways, as it usually kills organics, such as bacteria and mushrooms
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy
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Polypropylene can handle acetone. Many of them are actually polyethylene, though, and none of the ones I have are marked. I shattered one like a dumbass a few weeks ago, and it broke like polyethylene does, rather than polypropylene, so take that for what you will. Again, go ahead and try it. Post your results. I don't care.
Isopropryl alochol doesn't fog my SAB. I use it all the time, as do many other members. It's as clear as the day I bought it.
I don't understand what you're talking about with evaporating. Wait, you want to mix acetone into your substrate to kill contaminants, and then evaporate it out? Is that it?
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21293375 - 02/18/15 12:26 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes. my idea is to disinfect perhaps even the entire dried up shroom heads using acetone supposing it wouldnt form a gel (which could regardless be flattered out and dried up, crushed to a powder and be used as spores) the acetone could simply be evaporated off without using vacuum, im talking about process optimization, i can get acetone at about 20% the price of IPA, also..
managed to get hold of a 16L box today, and as i suspected it is PP, polyethylene should do just fine aswell as there are different density ranges in which determines how it behaves, lower densities are less durable but more soft higher density poly ethylene are oftenly used for storing the most harsh chemicals you can come close to, im thinking you mean PVC and other types of plastic to be used with plasticizers, which makes me wonder.. such plastics are prone to degrade and release smaller amounts of chronically toxic compounds, wouldnt this at one point affect your substrate supposing you can keep it clean for a time going towards infinity?
usually you can find a small mark on the bottom of a plastic container saying either a number of short abbreviation for the plastic type
or well actually, about your main question.. no, i wouldnt mix it into my substrate as i imagine it would get tricky to evap back out and keeping it clean during and after the process, im only using it for removing contaminants from the spores and / or shroom heads that would contain the spores, that will go into the substrate mix.
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy
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Yes, as you say, the density does have a difference in whether it will be melted entirely. But I assure you, polyethylene will fog if acetone is applied.
Why would you want to chemically disinfect your dried mushrooms? I don't even understand.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21293613 - 02/18/15 01:16 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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well i mean to have read something about dead shrooms in a grow tub can cause troublems as they tend to rot, supposing that when im drying out the shroom tops i would gather a decent portion of bacterias as im simply using radiator, although its only exposed to more or less stillstanding air for approx 18H
but one of my goals is to avoid having alcohol or any other solvents in the substrate /& tub
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy
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Do you mean aborts? They don't cause rot. The mycelium will actually just reabsorb them.
A radiator? You might want to splurge and buy a box fan, man.
I agree that no alcohol or any other solvents in the subtrate or tub is a very good policy.
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PsyCLown89
Shroomaloomed
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21293638 - 02/18/15 01:22 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well I must say that I did not know that alcohol did not kill spores and that bleach (chlorine based) does.
Why aren't we rather using bleach as opposed to alcohol? Bleach is even cheaper. Albeit, it does leave a bit of a mess behind
@Internet Police, when the mushrooms are ready to be harvested you will pick them and then dry them outside of the fruiting chamber / tub. You should not leave ready mushrooms inside the tub, therefore there should be no rotting mushrooms inside. Using alcohol to clean "dry" mushrooms seems silly to me. Spore prints would be taken when the mushrooms are still wet. When they are dry you will just be eating them and your body is more than capable of handling any bacteria which might be on them. I am sure you consume a lot worse from fast food places.
-------------------- My Trade List - Click ME!! [Updated: 02/05/2015] "It's all in your head" "Haste makes waste!"
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: PsyCLown89]
#21293654 - 02/18/15 01:25 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PsyCLown89 said: Why aren't we rather using bleach as opposed to alcohol? Bleach is even cheaper. Albeit, it does leave a bit of a mess behind
Some do. I used bleach in my SAB for a while before switching to isopropyl because of the film the appeared on the walls. I hated cleaning it every use.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21293712 - 02/18/15 01:36 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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the point wouldnt be to ingest the shrooms that i clean with alcohol, im managed to build up an dangerously powerful immune defense system not because i want all my food sanitarized
anyhow i did in the start place a computer fan ontop of the aluminium tray the mushrooms was placed in to dry out but i feel like its really just abit too much, when i get larger handfulls to dry out at once ill simply use oven Solutions i purpose, a chemist i am.
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy
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The fan isn't too much. You want moving air to dry your mushrooms, and the more the better.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21293832 - 02/18/15 02:08 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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mhm.. i dont get the critical part when it comes to using fan vs not using one, when i see a constant weight i take them as being done, they usually crumble apart with ease when they have stable weight
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy
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Yes, that's true. But the fan dries them faster, and the shorter the time between picking and dehydrating, the less potency is lost.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21293862 - 02/18/15 02:15 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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ah really? talking process optimization, from the chemistry i have done i have noticed something very strange.. then you force air onto whatever youre drying out the evaporative cooling will cool it down rather fast, however when you face the opposite direction so that it drags the air out of the container with the supposedly heated thing it doesnt cool down as much, but still greatly aids drying process
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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invitro
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21293902 - 02/18/15 02:24 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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The point of using a fan is this:
The mushrooms have water that are evaporating, when the air immediately surrounding the mushroom reaches 100% RH, evaporation slows way down, with no air current it should stop completely. When you have a fan on the mushroom the air current is whisking away the humid air and replacing it with presumably less humid air in your drying environment. Theoretically you don't need a strong fan to accomplish this, just enough to keep air moving.
Edited by invitro (02/18/15 02:25 PM)
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invitro
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: invitro]
#21293916 - 02/18/15 02:28 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also I believe some people harvest then spray the surface of the tub with a sink-sprayer nozzle and that blasts all the dead stuff out. aborts can occasionally go bad, it's not a bad idea to get them out.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: invitro]
#21293920 - 02/18/15 02:28 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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indeed, but the temperature should push the water out regardless although it ofcourse does have to go through some material.. i blow air onto it when its past half dry as the last water is in the core of the shroom, where you would perhaps want some air to penetrate and bring the water out from
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Psilicon
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Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: ah really? talking process optimization, from the chemistry i have done i have noticed something very strange.. then you force air onto whatever youre drying out the evaporative cooling will cool it down rather fast, however when you face the opposite direction so that it drags the air out of the container with the supposedly heated thing it doesnt cool down as much, but still greatly aids drying process
Evaporative cooling happens at a constant rate whenever you have evaporation without heat being supplied. If you have evaporative cooling happening faster when you have a fan pointed at something you're trying to dry, it's because the rate of evaporation is faster.
That said, it doesn't matter if your mushrooms get cold after they've been harvested. It matters that they get dry.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21293982 - 02/18/15 02:42 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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yes yes, but i just found it rather weird that the faster method for drying them didnt cool them down as much as the slower one, which would contradict logic, at least in my deluded state of mind
anyhow, you had a suggestion for a easy substrate that could replace potatoes?
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Psilicon
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Coir and vermiculite. You can pour boiling water on it and it won't contaminate.
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invitro
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21294018 - 02/18/15 02:51 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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What are you doing with the potatoes?
I guessed originally that the point of talking about acetone was that you were going to take a wild spore print, and then try to clean it up (from bacteria anyway) by dousing it with acetone and letting it evaporate. Come to think of it that doesn't sound half bad...
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: invitro]
#21294119 - 02/18/15 03:17 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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well van, its not overly OTC, i could perhaps nick a tiny speck of it from school but i'd rather not getting busted nicking stuff, ill read up on what vermiculite can do, im thinking possibly cellulose and / or styrofoam may work (dont hang me up on this, i have research yet to do on what vermiculite really is good at as a substrate)
anyways about the potatoes, ill shred them into pieces, boil with bleach and ammonia (not equal amounts, but enough to form chloramines and hydrazine, should def disinfect a whole lot) then ill wash it veeery throughly, ill take 200g of the more or less wet slush and add 10g dextrose to, 1g KNO3 and 1g sodium phosphate, perhaps a bit of calcium hydroxide for pH, i've seen something about it should be around 8 pH when starting for a monotub, it could also help by taking up some of the CO2 formed
but yes acetone could be handy on a whole new plane.. ill try playing abit around with it to see, either way the mushroom tops could be powdered when totally dried out and be added as spores.
pic related: i have a goal http://puu.sh/g2OMP.jpg
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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secretagent
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Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: well in europoor, at least my region.. isopropyl alcohol is very hard if not impossible to come by for whatever reason
-USING mmHg in 2015-
Just check any store for electronics service supplies. Isopropanol is sold for cleaing cooling paste off CPU's.
And using mmHg instead of kPa oh no...
Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: indeed, but the temperature should push the water out regardless although it ofcourse does have to go through some material.. i blow air onto it when its past half dry as the last water is in the core of the shroom, where you would perhaps want some air to penetrate and bring the water out from
Quote:
TheInternetPolice said:ah really? talking process optimization, from the chemistry i have done i have noticed something very strange.. then you force air onto whatever youre drying out the evaporative cooling will cool it down rather fast, however when you face the opposite direction so that it drags the air out of the container with the supposedly heated thing it doesnt cool down as much, but still greatly aids drying process
The water will diffuse throughout the mushroom as the entire piece dries out. You will have a moisture gradient where the middle is least dry and surface is the most dry.
Using a fan to blow air over them will increase evaporation speed due to the previous explanation by invitro. Why the temperature drops more rapidly with a higher evaporation rate is due to the ΔHvap (enthalpy of evaporation) per mole will be static during given conditions - while the total Q (heat) will be ΔHvap * moles evaporated.
Q/s = ΔHvap*moles/s
So with increased moles/second you will have more heat lost per second
If you want to know more about the chemistry behind this and other fundamental areas of chemistry I suggest you pick up a book on "Chemical Principles". And for even further depth read more about heat and mass transfer to learn about natural vs forced convection.
And you are correct, using warm air combined with forced convection will result in the fastest evaporation of water from the mushrooms.
Edited by secretagent (02/18/15 04:01 PM)
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invitro
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Quote:
TheInternetPolice said:
anyways about the potatoes, ill shred them into pieces, boil with bleach and ammonia (not equal amounts, but enough to form chloramines and hydrazine, should def disinfect a whole lot) then ill wash it veeery throughly, ill take 200g of the more or less wet slush and add 10g dextrose to, 1g KNO3 and 1g sodium phosphate, perhaps a bit of calcium hydroxide for pH, i've seen something about it should be around 8 pH when starting for a monotub, it could also help by taking up some of the CO2 formed [/url]
Are you using the potatoes for agar, lc, spawn or bulk sub? I'm guessing bulk sub but I want double check that.
Edited by invitro (02/18/15 03:57 PM)
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: invitro]
#21296932 - 02/19/15 04:51 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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yes, secretagent.. but the thing is i have more evaporation with less cooling when i drag air out of the container, by logic i would have more cooling the faster the liquids would evap
thing is if i cool the material down when trying to dry it out (which happens when i stream air onto it) the evaporation will be slower so for bulk drying it seems to go faster with not streaming air onto the material
invito: im using the potatoes for bulk sub, im washing most of the starch off anyways, im using cheese shredder for making the bulk sub
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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secretagent
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Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: by logic i would have more cooling the faster the liquids would evap
Correct - but it is not of great importance as the cooling would mostly be on the solid (the drying mushroom) due to air having poor thermal conductivity.
Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: so for bulk drying it seems to go faster with not streaming air onto the material
Not really. If you have a constant flow of gas that is of a certain temperature (lets say we can ignore the cooling of the evaporation on the rooms ambient temperature) the temperature gradient will be higher at the boundary surface - which will lead to a faster heat transfer. In nearly all cases forced convection will be more efficient. If you want to understand why I would recommend a book on the fundamentals of heat, mass and momentum transfer.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: secretagent]
#21297424 - 02/19/15 08:08 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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well thing is my experience isnt from drying out mushrooms, it was actually from boiling down larger portions of liquid in 1000mL beakers when fan blew air into beaker it gave me about 50mL loss of solution/hour or so, entire beaker would cool down to approx 10*C when it was turned upside down i got as much as 230mL/hour, plus the liquid remained boiling heat was on both times yes, liquid vs dragging liquid out of a solid is slightly different but not that much
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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secretagent
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The cases are very different. You have different processes and VERY different geometry. It will also depend on whether the flow is turbulent or laminar, and if the forced convective flow is going against the natural convection.
I've recently taken a course in heat and mass tranfer and I can assure you that in the case of drying mushrooms - having a fan blowing from under or sideways will with strong certainty that it will dry faster than without a fan.
Edited by secretagent (02/19/15 08:18 AM)
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: secretagent]
#21297538 - 02/19/15 08:37 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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y-yes.. i havent denied this yet however for BULK EVAPORATION you prefer to DRAG THE AIR AWAY rather than BLOWING AIR onto the wet substance as this EXCESSIVELY COOLS the substrate, slowing the evaporation and overall drying process
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Psilicon
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The same volume of air flow will have the same effect, no matter whether it's before or after a fan.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21297600 - 02/19/15 08:51 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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well i can only state my own observations
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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Psilicon
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Those aren't your observations. Those are your imaginations. The same volume of air with the relative humidity will have the same effect, whether it's going to toward something or away from something. This is because whenever it's going away from something it's going toward something else, and whenever it's going toward something it's going away from something else. There is no magical property or towardness or awayfromness.
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secretagent
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Quote:
van der griegen said: The same volume of air flow will have the same effect, no matter whether it's before or after a fan.
Of course, I just meant that you generally don't want to have a counterflow to the natural convection - it's just a waste of potential efficiency
Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: well i can only state my own observations
Quote:
TheInternetPolice said: y-yes.. i havent denied this yet however for BULK EVAPORATION you prefer to DRAG THE AIR AWAY rather than BLOWING AIR onto the wet substance as this EXCESSIVELY COOLS the substrate, slowing the evaporation and overall drying process
I understand. It's simply that you cannot use the other example as an analogy as too many variables are different!
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Psilicon
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: secretagent]
#21297670 - 02/19/15 09:06 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
secretagent said:
Quote:
van der griegen said: The same volume of air flow will have the same effect, no matter whether it's before or after a fan.
Of course, I just meant that you generally don't want to have a counterflow to the natural convection - it's just a waste of potential efficiency
Yes, I think you and I are in complete agreement on the facts.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
#21298062 - 02/19/15 10:24 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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i noted down 50 mL loss with fan and 230mL loss with inverted fan before i even tried weed. implying what i saw was an illusion is a statement, stating that what i saw didnt happen doesnt make what happened less true that day im not even saying i can explain why the data would be so illogical, im not saying in rewriting general physics, im simply saying what i saw although its highly off topic
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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NinjaMonkey
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What about vinegar killing surface mold spores if rubbing alcohol doesn't do the job.
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: NinjaMonkey]
#21317472 - 02/23/15 12:28 PM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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bleach! otherwise ive heard hydrochloric acid should work wonders for ending organic lifeforms, vinegar sounds rather weak to me and i cant imagine it as being very effective.. hydrogen peroxide should work aswell
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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NinjaMonkey
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I normally use bleach but have some stuff i can't use bleach on, i have some posters and and some other material that never had mold growing on it but was in a apartment that had mold air issues. So was looking for a way to get the surface clean without damaging the items, i know rubbing alcohol is weak and you can use vinegar on things like posters if what i was looking to clean was a hard surface i would use bleach no doubt but it's a paper material and was looking for an effective way to clean without damaging.
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secretagent
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A strong acid/base will more than likely do the job. But for Shroom type work I think alcohol is probably a better choice, especially if you have a flow hood (due to rapid evaporation of alcohols)
Edited by secretagent (02/24/15 01:08 PM)
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TheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: secretagent]
#21336645 - 02/27/15 03:35 AM (9 years, 1 month ago) |
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just spray some acetone onto it, evaporates very fast.. otherwise any other alcohol should do if you put the paper on a metal plate heated to about 70*C or more if osmotic pressure wouldnt be a problem you could potentially disinfect massive rooms putting a cup of concentrated NH4OH, NH3*OH, ammonia next to a cup of HCl, hydrochloric acid, muriatic acid (also concentrated) the fumes will react in gas phase and form a super fine powder of ammonium chloride which will eventually settle on nearby walls, and air too.. ammonium chloride being rather harmless, is used in food.. could be a neat way to prepare, the ultimate would be if the ammonium chloride wouldnt kill mushrooms and spores and all that, and wouldnt need to be cleaned away i know this is dangerously practical thinking, especially if you consider there are large abandoned houses all over the world!!
-------------------- "All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." -Lysander Spooner so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose. shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.
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goodnightmoon
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Guys, Is 70% alcohol not kill mold spores?
The reason I ask this is this: I got contamination (unknown kind, possibly penicillium?) two times in a row. I made everything just fine. And I thinked, this can be a cause.
This two times I made the spore syringes differently. Instead of microwaving the water with a lid, I just sucked boiling water into the syr. to have sterile water -no prob. with that. But you need something to put in it. So I taken a shot glass, washed with tea tree soap very well, after dried washed throughoutly with an cotton wool soaked in 70% alcohol. Waited for evap., used the sterile water in a syringes for the glass to scrape things in and make the sp. syringe. All in a clean environment -like I used to do without failure.. until now. They grow something else after five days. If not the spore print was already contam-en, that this could be a error factor?
Cotton wool is not sterile and i cleaned the glass with it. Even with alc, if it doesn't kill moldes it's a bad thing to put. I thought alc. sanitize it very much because its strong stuff. I used to do microwaving the water, hot temp is much better imho.
So it can be that with alc. soaked cotton wool that the contam get into the glass? Like I read: it doesnt kill MOLD spores. This can cause a contam? Anyway, id ont like alcohol for it, because you have to wait for evap. for sure. I'm afraid if not, it kills the mushy spores.
What the truth..about alcohol?
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h0ldthedoor
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: goodnightmoon]
#23546333 - 08/16/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
goodnightmoon said: Guys, Is 70% alcohol not kill mold spores?
The reason I ask this is this: I got contamination (unknown kind, possibly penicillium?) two times in a row. I made everything just fine. And I thinked, this can be a cause.
This two times I made the spore syringes differently. Instead of microwaving the water with a lid, I just sucked boiling water into the syr. to have sterile water -no prob. with that. But you need something to put in it. So I taken a shot glass, washed with tea tree soap very well, after dried washed throughoutly with an cotton wool soaked in 70% alcohol. Waited for evap., used the sterile water in a syringes for the glass to scrape things in and make the sp. syringe. All in a clean environment -like I used to do without failure.. until now. They grow something else after five days. If not the spore print was already contam-en, that this could be a error factor?
Cotton wool is not sterile and i cleaned the glass with it. Even with alc, if it doesn't kill moldes it's a bad thing to put. I thought alc. sanitize it very much because its strong stuff. I used to do microwaving the water, hot temp is much better imho.
So it can be that with alc. soaked cotton wool that the contam get into the glass? Like I read: it doesnt kill MOLD spores. This can cause a contam? Anyway, id ont like alcohol for it, because you have to wait for evap. for sure. I'm afraid if not, it kills the mushy spores.
What the truth..about alcohol?
Did you do your work in a SAB?
Where did the fruit come from that produced the spore print?
What medium was the cap printed on (paper, foil, wax paper, etc)? Was the medium sterilized? If foil was used, and was not sterilized; next time sterilize it by PC'ing before using it to make a spore print. This won't eliminate all contaminates present since you'll still be introducing a non-sterile mushroom cap to the mix, but it might help you to reduce the likelihood of having to deal with contaminates once you being to work with the spore print.
What tek are you following?
If you're working with a spore print you collected yourself, check out agar. It will give you a lot more flexibility than whatever you're doing now. Here's an easy way to make some agar plates https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976
Also, why resurrect an old thread that already answered your initial question for something that deserves it's own thread? Go back to the first page and read through for answers to your questions about alochol.
--------------------
Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. – Petyr Baelish
Edited by h0ldthedoor (08/16/16 09:06 AM)
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Psilicon
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: h0ldthedoor]
#23546478 - 08/16/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, 70% alcohol doesn't kill mold spores and you shouldn't wipe anything with unsterilized cotton.
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goodnightmoon
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: h0ldthedoor]
#23546557 - 08/16/16 10:52 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Did you do your work in a SAB?
Where did the fruit come from that produced the spore print?
What medium was the cap printed on (paper, foil, wax paper, etc)? Was the medium sterilized? If foil was used, and was not sterilized; next time sterilize it by PC'ing before using it to make a spore print. This won't eliminate all contaminates present since you'll still be introducing a non-sterile mushroom cap to the mix, but it might help you to reduce the likelihood of having to deal with contaminates once you being to work with the spore print.
What tek are you following?
If you're working with a spore print you collected yourself, check out agar. It will give you a lot more flexibility than whatever you're doing now. Here's an easy way to make some agar plates https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976
Also, why resurrect an old thread that already answered your initial question for something that deserves it's own thread? Go back to the first page and read through for answers to your questions about alochol.
Should I put this to a new thread? I'll answer your question and I'll see.
it's off-topic now:
The print I get from FSRE (Free Spore Ring). I used it fsre before, without problem. The process: I used to inoculate in the bathroom after big bath, when moisture evaporated on the wall, doors closed. It works like a "SAB" somehow. It was good everytime. The air is not moving, etc. I steamed the jars for 100 min, but after innoc I realized the verm layer is shifted back 1 centimeter (it wasn't wet), it was putted tin foil, rubber, everything during steam. Could be a problem. But its the second run now with same problem. The syringes I made as I mentioned above. Cleaning the shot glass with alcohol soaked cotton wool before adding the sterilized water. It can be problem if it doesnt kill mold spores like the ones are on the c. wool. Yep, this time the print was little, it was on a tin foil, but like 1 cm diameter, not too much. Thanks for agar link, I thought about agar, good thing
ps: I put into a new thread if needed, just these single question I had now.
Thanks
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h0ldthedoor
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: goodnightmoon]
#23546630 - 08/16/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
h0ldthedoor said: Did you do your work in a SAB?
Where did the fruit come from that produced the spore print?
What medium was the cap printed on (paper, foil, wax paper, etc)? Was the medium sterilized? If foil was used, and was not sterilized; next time sterilize it by PC'ing before using it to make a spore print. This won't eliminate all contaminates present since you'll still be introducing a non-sterile mushroom cap to the mix, but it might help you to reduce the likelihood of having to deal with contaminates once you being to work with the spore print.
What tek are you following?
If you're working with a spore print you collected yourself, check out agar. It will give you a lot more flexibility than whatever you're doing now. Here's an easy way to make some agar plates https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976
Also, why resurrect an old thread that already answered your initial question for something that deserves it's own thread? Go back to the first page and read through for answers to your questions about alochol.
Quote:
goodnightmoon said: Should I put this to a new thread? I'll answer your question and I'll see.
it's off-topic now:
The print I get from FSRE (Free Spore Ring). I used it fsre before, without problem. The process: I used to inoculate in the bathroom after big bath, when moisture evaporated on the wall, doors closed. It works like a "SAB" somehow. It was good everytime. The air is not moving, etc. I steamed the jars for 100 min, but after innoc I realized the verm layer is shifted back 1 centimeter (it wasn't wet), it was putted tin foil, rubber, everything during steam. Could be a problem. But its the second run now with same problem. The syringes I made as I mentioned above. Cleaning the shot glass with alcohol soaked cotton wool before adding the sterilized water. It can be problem if it doesnt kill mold spores like the ones are on the c. wool. Yep, this time the print was little, it was on a tin foil, but like 1 cm diameter, not too much. Thanks for agar link, I thought about agar, good thing
ps: I put into a new thread if needed, just these single question I had now.
Thanks
Yes, make a new thread.
FSRE is doing good by providing free spore prints, but those spore prints are likely contaminated with all kinds of fun stuff. Given the print traveled from the field/tub, to where it was printed, to FSRE, to you, it's unlikely you could create a clean spore syringe from it.
If agar has your attention, make up some pasty plates (following the link provided above) and you're on your way to success.
Now onto your working environment, here is my last post, it applies just as much in this thread as it did the other
Quote:
h0ldthedoor said: "Clean" doesn't cut it. By working in open air, anything and everything floating in the room becomes another possible threat to your grow. You don't want this. You want to work in an area with no drafts, gusts, breezes or currents. It's not so important that the area be sterile, so much as the tools you're working with.
You need to be doing work in at least a Still Air Box. Not to be confused with a glove box, which you don't want. The point of a Still Air Box is to keep the air still, if you go taping gloves to the only openings on the box, it's going to inevitably create a billow effect every time you insert and remove your hands from the gloves (with the air entering and exiting through the only other openings, the cracks between the lid and container itself). Again, the point of a Still Air Box is to keep the air still.
Again what's important is not to have a totally sterile working environment, but rather an environment where contaminates won't land on what you're working with. Before beginning work in a Still Air Box, give it a quick misting with plain tap water and then wipe the entire inside of the Box so that it's still moist. This moisture on the interior of the Still Air Box should catch any contaminates that may be moving around. As attractive as a Glove Box may look with it's fancy built-in gloves, it's counterproductive and not what you need.
Basically a Still Air Box (SAB) is just a large tub with two large holes cut into one side for your arms to go through. Those large clear plastic storage tubs are perfect for this, though other things can be repurposed into a SAB. For example, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23530167#23530167 is a fine example of repurposing existing materials into a nice SAB.
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Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. – Petyr Baelish
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