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OfflineTheInternetPolice
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Registered: 02/08/15
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: invitro]
    #21294119 - 02/18/15 05:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

well van, its not overly OTC, i could perhaps nick a tiny speck of it from school but i'd rather not getting busted nicking stuff, ill read up on what vermiculite can do, im thinking possibly cellulose and / or styrofoam may work (dont hang me up on this, i have research yet to do on what vermiculite really is good at as a substrate)

anyways about the potatoes, ill shred them into pieces, boil with bleach and ammonia (not equal amounts, but enough to form chloramines and hydrazine, should def disinfect a whole lot) then ill wash it veeery throughly, ill take 200g of the more or less wet slush and add 10g dextrose to, 1g KNO3 and 1g sodium phosphate, perhaps a bit of calcium hydroxide for pH, i've seen something about it should be around 8 pH when starting for a monotub, it could also help by taking up some of the CO2 formed

but yes acetone could be handy on a whole new plane.. ill try playing abit around with it to see, either way the mushroom tops could be powdered when totally dried out and be added as spores.

pic related: i have a goal
http://puu.sh/g2OMP.jpg


--------------------
"All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime."
-Lysander Spooner
so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol
to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose.


shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.


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Offlinesecretagent
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Registered: 10/26/14
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21294191 - 02/18/15 05:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheInternetPolice said:
well in europoor, at least my region.. isopropyl alcohol is very hard if not impossible to come by for whatever reason

-USING mmHg in 2015-



Just check any store for electronics service supplies. Isopropanol is sold for cleaing cooling paste off CPU's.

And using mmHg instead of kPa oh no...

Quote:

TheInternetPolice said:
indeed, but the temperature should push the water out regardless although it ofcourse does have to go through some material.. i blow air onto it when its past half dry as the last water is in the core of the shroom, where you would perhaps want some air to penetrate and bring the water out from



Quote:

TheInternetPolice said:ah really? talking process optimization, from the chemistry i have done i have noticed something very strange.. then you force air onto whatever youre drying out the evaporative cooling will cool it down rather fast, however when you face the opposite direction so that it drags the air out of the container with the supposedly heated thing it doesnt cool down as much, but still greatly aids drying process



The water will diffuse throughout the mushroom as the entire piece dries out. You will have a moisture gradient where the middle is least dry and surface is the most dry.

Using a fan to blow air over them will increase evaporation speed due to the previous explanation by invitro. Why the temperature drops more rapidly with a higher evaporation rate is due to the ΔHvap (enthalpy of evaporation) per mole will be static during given conditions - while the total Q (heat) will be ΔHvap * moles evaporated.

Q/s = ΔHvap*moles/s

So with increased moles/second you will have more heat lost per second

If you want to know more about the chemistry behind this and other fundamental areas of chemistry I suggest you pick up a book on "Chemical Principles". And for even further depth read more about heat and mass transfer to learn about natural vs forced convection.

And you are correct, using warm air combined with forced convection will result in the fastest evaporation of water from the mushrooms.


Edited by secretagent (02/18/15 06:01 PM)


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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,496
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21294307 - 02/18/15 05:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheInternetPolice said:

anyways about the potatoes, ill shred them into pieces, boil with bleach and ammonia (not equal amounts, but enough to form chloramines and hydrazine, should def disinfect a whole lot) then ill wash it veeery throughly, ill take 200g of the more or less wet slush and add 10g dextrose to, 1g KNO3 and 1g sodium phosphate, perhaps a bit of calcium hydroxide for pH, i've seen something about it should be around 8 pH when starting for a monotub, it could also help by taking up some of the CO2 formed
[/url]




Are you using the potatoes for agar, lc, spawn or bulk sub?  I'm guessing bulk sub but I want double check that.


Edited by invitro (02/18/15 05:57 PM)


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OfflineTheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: invitro]
    #21296932 - 02/19/15 06:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

yes, secretagent.. but the thing is i have more evaporation with less cooling when i drag air out of the container, by logic i would have more cooling the faster the liquids would evap

thing is if i cool the material down when trying to dry it out (which happens when i stream air onto it) the evaporation will be slower
so for bulk drying it seems to go faster with not streaming air onto the material

invito: im using the potatoes for bulk sub, im washing most of the starch off anyways, im using cheese shredder for making the bulk sub


--------------------
"All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime."
-Lysander Spooner
so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol
to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose.


shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.


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Offlinesecretagent
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Registered: 10/26/14
Posts: 54
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21297247 - 02/19/15 09:21 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheInternetPolice said:
by logic i would have more cooling the faster the liquids would evap



Correct - but it is not of great importance as the cooling would mostly be on the solid (the drying mushroom) due to air having poor thermal conductivity.




Quote:

TheInternetPolice said:
so for bulk drying it seems to go faster with not streaming air onto the material



Not really. If you have a constant flow of gas that is of a certain temperature (lets say we can ignore the cooling of the evaporation on the rooms ambient temperature) the temperature gradient will be higher at the boundary surface - which will lead to a faster heat transfer.
In nearly all cases forced convection will be more efficient. If you want to understand why I would recommend a book on the fundamentals of heat, mass and momentum transfer.


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OfflineTheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: secretagent]
    #21297424 - 02/19/15 10:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

well thing is my experience isnt from drying out mushrooms, it was actually from boiling down larger portions of liquid in 1000mL beakers
when fan blew air into beaker it gave me about 50mL loss of solution/hour or so, entire beaker would cool down to approx 10*C
when it was turned upside down i got as much as 230mL/hour, plus the liquid remained boiling
heat was on both times
yes, liquid vs dragging liquid out of a solid is slightly different but not that much


--------------------
"All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime."
-Lysander Spooner
so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol
to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose.


shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.


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Offlinesecretagent
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Registered: 10/26/14
Posts: 54
Loc: Europa
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21297459 - 02/19/15 10:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The cases are very different. You have different processes and VERY different geometry. It will also depend on whether the flow is turbulent or laminar, and if the forced convective flow is going against the natural convection.

I've recently taken a course in heat and mass tranfer and I can assure you that in the case of drying mushrooms - having a fan blowing from under or sideways will with strong certainty that it will dry faster than without a fan.


Edited by secretagent (02/19/15 10:18 AM)


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OfflineTheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: secretagent]
    #21297538 - 02/19/15 10:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

y-yes.. i havent denied this yet
however for BULK EVAPORATION you prefer to DRAG THE AIR AWAY rather than BLOWING AIR onto the wet substance as this EXCESSIVELY COOLS the substrate, slowing the evaporation and overall drying process


--------------------
"All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime."
-Lysander Spooner
so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol
to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose.


shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21297557 - 02/19/15 10:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The same volume of air flow will have the same effect, no matter whether it's before or after a fan.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.


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OfflineTheInternetPolice
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Registered: 02/08/15
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
    #21297600 - 02/19/15 10:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

well i can only state my own observations


--------------------
"All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime."
-Lysander Spooner
so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol
to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose.


shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21297647 - 02/19/15 11:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Those aren't your observations.  Those are your imaginations.  The same volume of air with the relative humidity will have the same effect, whether it's going to toward something or away from something.  This is because whenever it's going away from something it's going toward something else, and whenever it's going toward something it's going away from something else.  There is no magical property or towardness or awayfromness.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.


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Offlinesecretagent
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21297662 - 02/19/15 11:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
The same volume of air flow will have the same effect, no matter whether it's before or after a fan.



Of course, I just meant that you generally don't want to have a counterflow to the natural convection - it's just a waste of potential efficiency :tongue:
Quote:

TheInternetPolice said:
well i can only state my own observations



Quote:

TheInternetPolice said:
y-yes.. i havent denied this yet
however for BULK EVAPORATION you prefer to DRAG THE AIR AWAY rather than BLOWING AIR onto the wet substance as this EXCESSIVELY COOLS the substrate, slowing the evaporation and overall drying process



I understand. It's simply that you cannot use the other example as an analogy as too many variables are different! :wink:


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OfflinePsilicon
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Registered: 08/26/12
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: secretagent]
    #21297670 - 02/19/15 11:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

secretagent said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
The same volume of air flow will have the same effect, no matter whether it's before or after a fan.



Of course, I just meant that you generally don't want to have a counterflow to the natural convection - it's just a waste of potential efficiency :tongue:




Yes, I think you and I are in complete agreement on the facts.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.


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OfflineTheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: Psilicon]
    #21298062 - 02/19/15 12:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i noted down 50 mL loss with fan and 230mL loss with inverted fan before i even tried weed.
implying what i saw was an illusion is a statement, stating that what i saw didnt happen doesnt make what happened less true that day
im not even saying i can explain why the data would be so illogical, im not saying in rewriting general physics, im simply saying what i saw although its highly off topic


--------------------
"All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime."
-Lysander Spooner
so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol
to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose.


shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.


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OfflineNinjaMonkey
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Registered: 02/23/15
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21317289 - 02/23/15 01:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

What about vinegar killing surface mold spores if rubbing alcohol doesn't do the job.


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OfflineTheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: NinjaMonkey]
    #21317472 - 02/23/15 02:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

bleach! otherwise ive heard hydrochloric acid should work wonders for ending organic lifeforms, vinegar sounds rather weak to me and i cant imagine it as being very effective.. hydrogen peroxide should work aswell


--------------------
"All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime."
-Lysander Spooner
so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol
to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose.


shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.


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OfflineNinjaMonkey
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Registered: 02/23/15
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21318009 - 02/23/15 04:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I normally use bleach but have some stuff i can't use bleach on, i have some posters and and some other material that never had mold growing on it but was in a apartment that had mold air issues. So was looking for a way to get the surface clean without damaging the items, i know rubbing alcohol is weak and you can use vinegar on things like posters if what i was looking to clean was a hard surface i would use bleach no doubt but it's a paper material and was looking for an effective way to clean without damaging.


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Offlinesecretagent
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #21322670 - 02/24/15 03:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

A strong acid/base will more than likely do the job. But for Shroom type work I think alcohol is probably a better choice, especially if you have a flow hood (due to rapid evaporation of alcohols)


Edited by secretagent (02/24/15 03:08 PM)


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OfflineTheInternetPolice
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Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: secretagent]
    #21336645 - 02/27/15 05:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

just spray some acetone onto it, evaporates very fast.. otherwise any other alcohol should do if you put the paper on a metal plate heated to about 70*C or more
if osmotic pressure wouldnt be a problem you could potentially disinfect massive rooms putting a cup of concentrated NH4OH, NH3*OH, ammonia next to a cup of HCl, hydrochloric acid, muriatic acid (also concentrated)
the fumes will react in gas phase and form a super fine powder of ammonium chloride which will eventually settle on nearby walls, and air too.. ammonium chloride being rather harmless, is used in food.. could be a neat way to prepare, the ultimate would be if the ammonium chloride wouldnt kill mushrooms and spores and all that, and wouldnt need to be cleaned away
i know this is dangerously practical thinking, especially if you consider there are large abandoned houses all over the world!!


--------------------
"All legislation whatsoever is an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime."
-Lysander Spooner
so far: Morphine, LSD, Ketamine, 2C-B, LSA, THC, MDMA, mushrooms, salvia, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol
to do: DMT, meth, mescaline, n-bome, MDA pure, N2O, kratom, brugmasia, Opium and heroic cannabis dose.


shroomtip: stopper nose with cotton wool, no taste.


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Offlinegoodnightmoon
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Registered: 07/29/16
Posts: 5
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: Alcohol to kill living mold and spores? [Re: TheInternetPolice]
    #23546302 - 08/16/16 10:42 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Guys, Is 70% alcohol not kill mold spores?

The reason I ask this is this: I got contamination (unknown kind, possibly penicillium?) two times in a row. I made everything just fine. And I thinked, this can be a cause.

This two times I made the spore syringes differently. Instead of microwaving the water with a lid, I just sucked boiling water into the syr. to have sterile water -no prob. with that. But you need something to put in it. So I taken a shot glass, washed with tea tree soap very well, after dried washed throughoutly with an cotton wool soaked in 70% alcohol. Waited for evap., used the sterile water in a syringes for the glass to scrape things in and make the sp. syringe. All in a clean environment -like I used to do without failure.. :frown: until now. They grow something else after five days. If not the spore print was already contam-en, that this could be a error factor?

Cotton wool is not sterile and i cleaned the glass with it. Even with alc, if it doesn't kill moldes it's a bad thing to put. I thought alc. sanitize it very much because its strong stuff. I used to do microwaving the water, hot temp is much better imho.

So it can be that with alc. soaked cotton wool that the contam get into the glass? Like I read: it doesnt kill MOLD spores. This can cause a contam? Anyway, id ont like alcohol for it, because you have to wait for evap. for sure. I'm afraid if not, it kills the mushy spores.

What the truth..about alcohol?:laugh:


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