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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
reverse roles
    #4096908 - 04/25/05 09:57 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Here is a suggestion...

usually everyone on this forum wears same masks/uniforms
supporting same sides in discussions..

let's pick a theme in this thread and anyone that has something to say please switch your role from the side you would usually support to the oposite side of the discussion

so anyone suggest some topic now..

for example if it turns out to be god for example, if you feel you are an atheist, try to convince us that god exists,
or if it is aliens and you believe in aliens, try to convince us
that they don't exist

I really wonder how many of us are capable of thinking "outside ourselfs"


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineCaptainJailew
Apathetic and Idon't care

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 398
Loc: Central Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: reverse roles [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4096923 - 04/25/05 10:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I love to play devil's advocate no matter what the topic is, the only problem is that after too much analytic and logical thought it is very very hard to come up with a "bulletproof" belief system/way-of-life I can put my energy into. Not that I think I have the answers or questions to every answer, but there is always enough to create doubt within my own mind.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: reverse roles [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #4097181 - 04/25/05 11:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Topic choices: (on some of them you might want to clarify your original position)

1) Does god exist?

2) Does Karma exist?

3) Do aliens exist?

4) What happens when you die?

5) Is full ego-loss possible?

6) Why is Bush such a damn good professional speaker?

7) Is any absolute form of absolution possible?

8) Did Jesus exist?

9) What will happen in 2012?

10) Do we even exist?

11) Is aethism better then agnosticism?

12) any other suggestions before someone chooses to take up their opposite position?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (04/25/05 11:23 PM)


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OfflineCaptainJailew
Apathetic and Idon't care

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 398
Loc: Central Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: reverse roles [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4097196 - 04/25/05 11:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

1) Does god exist?
Of course He does, and He is in the male form as well. He is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, but sometimes we can't understand his actions because we are but mere mortals, and anything that happens which seems contradictory to our faith-system can be explained as saying "god works in mysterious ways." There is absolutely no scientific evidence or proof for spontaneous life generation from non-living properties. 6 billion years (the age of the world) is also hardly old enough to have branched enough evolutionarily to have created creatures as complex as humans without leaving more evidence of our ancestors.

I can't do this without feeling somewhat sarcastic lol...I will try again later.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: reverse roles [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #4097231 - 04/25/05 11:11 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

:lol: great idea for a thread OldWoodSpecter.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleroby000
me
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
Loc: nazi poland
Re: reverse roles [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #4097247 - 04/25/05 11:14 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

obviously he dose not exist because science can prove everything and anything. life is just a big coincidence we evolved from nothing and thats how i feel as an athiest. im also a better person than someone who has a belief. another reason god dosent exist is because religons are just institutions set up to control the mases and are hinderances to todays scientific resarch by fearing change *i kind of agree with this* if god was everywhere why dosent he prove it by showing signs.

this is difficult... you are right...


--------------------
 


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: reverse roles [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4097266 - 04/25/05 11:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'd like to argue that atheism... whether it be weak or strong atheism is foolish in comparison to agnosticism.

Any takers? Lets make it a good one! Whoever wants to debate me gets the first statement!


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: reverse roles [Re: roby000]
    #4097283 - 04/25/05 11:21 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

seeing as how everyone is playing with #1...

1) God exists... he created everything for love, and he loved satan, and like a god father allowed his creation to tempt one of his most beloved creations, as god believes in "free will". He gives mankind the "free will" to follow and to do whatever they want, however their is a consequence if you don't follow him, you'll wind up in hell with his original evil creation.... Don't bother to think to much about god knowingly and willingly creating something evil that tempts mankind... as through the use of his teachings in the bible, that contain no fallacies, and make absolute perfect sense to the "t" provided you're Catholic; you will live forever in heaven with your fellow brothers and sisters where no disease, death, or harm occur. I can picture heaven right now, their is also no need to have genitalia, nor an anus, as we will all be feeding on the light of the lord, and nothing goes to waste when your able to digest the divine nature of our Lord!!! Don't worry about sex in heaven either, their will be no need to breed in heaven either!!!

  :heart: :sun: :flowers: :inlove: :hug:

Don't forget  :jesus: died for our sins. Open your heart to him, and you to shall recieve salvation.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (04/25/05 11:27 PM)


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Offlinethe_phoenix
Stranger

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: reverse roles [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4097463 - 04/26/05 12:13 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

1) Does god exist?
No.

2) Does Karma exist?
No.

3) Do aliens exist?
Yes.

4) What happens when you die?
Nothing, with a capital N.

5) Is full ego-loss possible?
I suppose it is possible to deteriorate your mind to the point of total non-function and chaos, coincidentally the state of the universe to which everything eventually reduces.

6) Why is Bush such a damn good professional speaker?
He is legitimately evil and hesitates not for a second before pronouncing utter lies. The ironic humour of the situation, that he is preaching an ideal vision the very opposite of where reality is and is headed, seems to contemptibly encourage him.

7) Is any absolute form of absolution possible?
Absolution of what? There is no ultimate meaning to anything, so there is nothing to be absolved. Nothing caries over from the past, no strings attached to the utterly random present. Thus we must live for the present moment in all its nostalgic and wretched glory.

8) Did Jesus exist?
Perhaps, and if so, he was nailed alive to a cross along with hundreds of other political enemies of the state, shit disturbers, and prophetic lunatics. They were a grusome display of the state's supremacy, their plight hopelessly manipulated by the church into one of nobility and self-sacrifice.

9) What will happen in 2012?
Hell if I know.

10) Do we even exist?
For now.

11) Is aethism better then agnosticism?
Atheism is better because there is no God, but there is infinite darkness. Man's hollow ideal of heaven is but a hope of the inverse of our current hell. There is no point in entertaining a chance for none exists.

12) any other suggestions before someone chooses to take up their opposite position?
I don't care, whatever.


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OfflineCaptainJailew
Apathetic and Idon't care

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 398
Loc: Central Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: reverse roles [Re: roby000]
    #4097745 - 04/26/05 01:41 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm assuming we are to continue with our stances and see how far we can go with them? Well...

Quote:

roby000 said:
obviously he dose not exist because science can prove everything and anything. life is just a big coincidence we evolved from nothing and thats how i feel as an athiest. im also a better person than someone who has a belief. another reason god dosent exist is because religons are just institutions set up to control the mases and are hinderances to todays scientific resarch by fearing change *i kind of agree with this* if god was everywhere why dosent he prove it by showing signs.

this is difficult... you are right...




Saying we evolved from nothing is by no means even close to being more founded than a belief in God. Darwin's ideas about evolution are outdated and are only applicable in the event of natural selection, and are NOT validated by scientific proof. All the "life" that science has been able to generate have been amino acids and peptide chains, which are hardly even the main components of a single celled organism. Additionally, in a time line, the space of time when the first in the series of homo-species came to be is far too late to be attributed to natural selection and evolution. While religions may be flawed (I realized I am not really playing reverse roles at all, but just a twisted role...my original post was just a crack at people who were naive and dogmatically western-religiously oriented...but whatever) it is pretty undeniable that there is some sort of paternalistic presence or entity who created or at least aided significantly in the creation of the human species. God can't show signs of his existence to humans any more because that would destroy the foundation of what faith is about. If we were to know by experience rather than faith it would no longer really be a choice, since we would know what to choose. Certainly no one would choose eternal damnation over living in heaven! We must have faith (but God doesn't require blind faith) that Jesus is our savior and accept him into our hearts for God to wash us of our sins.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: reverse roles [Re: the_phoenix]
    #4097756 - 04/26/05 01:43 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You were supposed to take your opposite stance :tongue:.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: reverse roles [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4098046 - 04/26/05 08:28 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Hey people, I detect some sarcasm in your posts..

This thread was about really changing shoes, and trying to find valid argumkents against your own beliefs, not making fun of the other side and repeating clisheys (sp?)

If you don't believe in god, really convince us that there is god,
find some indications, arguments for that, try to really discuss it


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: reverse roles [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4098051 - 04/26/05 08:33 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
seeing as how everyone is playing with #1...

1) God exists... he created everything for love, and he loved satan, and like a god father allowed his creation to tempt one of his most beloved creations, as god believes in "free will". He gives mankind the "free will" to follow and to do whatever they want, however their is a consequence if you don't follow him, you'll wind up in hell with his original evil creation.... Don't bother to think to much about god knowingly and willingly creating something evil that tempts mankind... as through the use of his teachings in the bible, that contain no fallacies, and make absolute perfect sense to the "t" provided you're Catholic; you will live forever in heaven with your fellow brothers and sisters where no disease, death, or harm occur. I can picture heaven right now, their is also no need to have genitalia, nor an anus, as we will all be feeding on the light of the lord, and nothing goes to waste when your able to digest the divine nature of our Lord!!! Don't worry about sex in heaven either, their will be no need to breed in heaven either!!!

  :heart: :sun: :flowers: :inlove: :hug:

Don't forget  :jesus: died for our sins. Open your heart to him, and you to shall recieve salvation.




And what about Alah? How do you chose Jehowah or Jesus over Alah?
There is no room for two crippled gods like the ones in these books.

And why did Jesus have to die to save me? What happened in his death?

And how can you be sure one word from the bible is genuine and not invented in "translation"


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: reverse roles [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #4098055 - 04/26/05 08:37 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Why do you people always link Jesus to every discussion about god.
"God" is not copyrighted to christianity, it is a general human concept made long before christianity, so please keep Jesus out of this.

Who created this creator by the way?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineCaptainJailew
Apathetic and Idon't care

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 398
Loc: Central Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: reverse roles [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4098063 - 04/26/05 08:43 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I don't necessarilly associate Jesus with God, which is why I did in my post..that was the point wasn't it?


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: reverse roles [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #4098072 - 04/26/05 08:54 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm playing my role too

p.s. out of the role: you don't need to twist every answer to oposite, the only thing that is reversed is the basic yes/no question regarding question of existence of god or aliens of whatever.
In that frame you can think as it comes naturally to you as long as you are trying to somehow justify the oposite role (in your case existence of god) you can find your own original ways of proving that god exists. Use your own doubts (in your beliefs) in this thread as proofs for the oposite side.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleroby000
me
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
Loc: nazi poland
Re: reverse roles [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4099160 - 04/26/05 03:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

i think this almost impossible to do however i do see your point in having us think outside ourselves i just cant write what i dont think without being sarcastic...


--------------------
 


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: reverse roles [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4099204 - 04/26/05 03:55 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
seeing as how everyone is playing with #1...

1) God exists... he created everything for love, and he loved satan, and like a god father allowed his creation to tempt one of his most beloved creations, as god believes in "free will". He gives mankind the "free will" to follow and to do whatever they want, however their is a consequence if you don't follow him, you'll wind up in hell with his original evil creation.... Don't bother to think to much about god knowingly and willingly creating something evil that tempts mankind... as through the use of his teachings in the bible, that contain no fallacies, and make absolute perfect sense to the "t" provided you're Catholic; you will live forever in heaven with your fellow brothers and sisters where no disease, death, or harm occur. I can picture heaven right now, their is also no need to have genitalia, nor an anus, as we will all be feeding on the light of the lord, and nothing goes to waste when your able to digest the divine nature of our Lord!!! Don't worry about sex in heaven either, their will be no need to breed in heaven either!!!

  :heart: :sun: :flowers: :inlove: :hug:

Don't forget  :jesus: died for our sins. Open your heart to him, and you to shall recieve salvation.




And what about Alah? How do you chose Jehowah or Jesus over Alah?
There is no room for two crippled gods like the ones in these books.

And why did Jesus have to die to save me? What happened in his death?

And how can you be sure one word from the bible is genuine and not invented in "translation"




Sorry, my ability to fantasize isn't that strong... I can't even pretend to believe in it unfortuanetly.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: reverse roles [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4099542 - 04/26/05 05:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Seems to me that this is the root of all problems in shroomery,
in discussions different sides don't respect the other one, they don't take it seriously beucause they judge everything a priory.
That's where all the strong beliefs come from, and that's why shroomers must pretend in situations like this and they can't avoid sarcasm

honestly, I see no point of discussions in which you don't admit the other side is possible to be right too.

What a great forum, everyone knows the absolute truth about things


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: reverse roles [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4100164 - 04/26/05 08:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I would gladly take anyone up with any issue. I can be for it or against it. I have changed my mind so many times. I've went from being an anarchist to capitalist, to card carring Pro-life member. GIVE ME YOUR BEST SHOT.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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