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 Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
 
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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 Relating to Children 
#4093237 - 04/24/05 09:20 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Where I work, at a public school, I am responsible for maintaining a network of some 70 computers. I also provide instuctional support to the faculty and students. Often children (7th and 8th graders) approach me and profess an interest in computers or hacking. I usually indulge their interest by discussing these things enthusiastically with them and point them to reliable sources of information on these subjects. I tend to deal with children by treating them as responsible humans. I have found that with my own children treating them as responsible people, instead of "children" has produced 2 responsible children and one responsible adult so far. So, I will discuss things with them on equal ground...not as an all knowing adult. A few teachers at this school have indicated their disaproval of this method. They feel that an adult should order the children around in a condescending, authoritarian manner, and that what they say is unimportant. I do maintain a sense of authority with my bearing, but I also try to relate to the child as if they were an adult. I have very few discipline problems with the children, and several known "problem children" get along with me just fine. What do you guys think about this. How should an adult relate to children?
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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 Give them as much authority over a situation as they can handle. I've a little sister that I sometimes have to watch, I make the rules simple;
1) Don't make a mess.
2) Don't whine.
3) Do whatever the hell you want.
It works fairly well provided all things are met, and she exercises a little common sense.
As long as a child is aware of things that could be hazardous, and knows about the consequences regarding it... it isn't that big a deal. (stove, guns, knives, drugs, etc...)
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Duh, Ordering anyone around in a consending and athoritarian manner is bound to fail. You made that one too easy. Can you ask a harder one. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Amen to that brother. Reminds of me a time I was volunteering in my daughters classroom when she was trying out the public school here last year.
Each of the moms were running activity stations the kids were rotating around in groups. Mine was to read a story from a giant book up on an easel with a big pointing stick. The kids were suppose to sit still and listen to me read the story, were my instructions. Thbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
As long as the stayed in our area, I let them move around (wiggle and fidget) and got glares of disapproval from the other moms and teacher. Thbbbbbbb In about 20 seconds, I realized not all of them were paying attention to me reading. I thought, "Of course not because I am basically talking AT them through a story they can't relate to"
So, Every 5 or so sentences, I started asking them questions to help them to relate and to pull them in to the story. I made their opinions and stories relative to the story matter. In a snap, they were all glued and paying attention to me then because they new I was paying attention to them and was interested in them as well.
The glares of disapproval grew stronger at me from the other moms and teacher. Thbbbbbbbbbbbbbb. Then, the kids wanted to practice taking turns reading instead of me so I let them. ( I don't need the practice, they do) They were all loving life and REALLY into the story now. We were all having an interactive ball.
Now, the looks could've killed. But guess what?
When it came time to quiet down and sit still before the kids could move to the next station, MY groups were ALWAYS the first ready, and the only ready on time. WHY? I had earned their respect in that ten minutes by giving them some use of their power and when I asked them to sit quiet and still so they could go to the next station, they easily listened to me with respect.
WELL, of course the other moms and teacher noticed my groups were always quiet and still at shift times when theirs were absolutely out of their control. Hahahaha, boy the feathers were ruffled as the glares turned into faces of perplexed confusion because they had nothin on me. Hahahahahaha
I never let my group get out of control, I just shifted the power giving the kids control of themselves and we as a group were always in control of ourselves and it was beautiful.
Yes, Hue, it's not cool to pull that authoritarian control freak BS on kids and it's counter productive to.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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 Re: Relating to Children [Re: Icelander]
#4093363 - 04/24/05 09:59 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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It seems like a no brainer to me as well, but some of the teachers (just a few) really seem to be offended by this...so I thought I would ask. Of course I am slanting it in my favor in reporting this. My persoanl opinion IS reflected.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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I tend to deal with children by treating them as responsible humans.
Too bad this idea is lost on many parents and other adults.
I find it appalling that some parents prefer to inflict violence (hit) children to get them to behave rather than talk to them. A child raised in love, without violence, will correct his behavior when he realizes he's disappointed the parent he loves; there's no need for violence.
If you think hitting a defenseless child to correct a behavior problem is the way to go, then you should be willing to take a few lashings by whip when you're caught speeding.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (04/24/05 10:09 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Looks like you can relate to the Tao:
"If you want to be a great leader,
you must learn to follow the Tao.
Stop trying to control.
Let go of fixed plans and concepts,
and the world will govern itself."
I try to live by this as much as I am able.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: Icelander]
#4093385 - 04/24/05 10:04 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Duh, Ordering anyone around in a consending and athoritarian manner is bound to fail. You made that one too easy. Can you ask a harder one.
If its a no brainer then you are saying many to most parents and teachers have no brains.
I prefer to think of it as uncommon common sense. 
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Good one.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Duh, Ordering anyone around in a consending and athoritarian manner is bound to fail. You made that one too easy. Can you ask a harder one.
If its a no brainer then you are saying many to most parents and teachers have no brains.
Yeah, That's pretty much how it seems. Not all but most. Definitely!
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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 nunciate
Cold and Indifferent
Registered: 05/23/04
Posts: 904
Loc: Edge of the World
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Fight the power! Resist and multiply! 
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I am the devil and I am just like you
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Duh, Ordering anyone around in a consending and athoritarian manner is bound to fail. You made that one too easy. Can you ask a harder one.
If its a no brainer then you are saying many to most parents and teachers have no brains.
I prefer to think of it as uncommon common sense.
You're truly becoming outsane 
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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Droz
Love of Life
Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Adults should relate to children as any older person should, one with more experience can teach children many things. You can fill their heads with crap, like some parents do. Or you can filld there heads with more crap like everyone does.
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Evolution of Time.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada 
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Hue you basically pinned the tail on my opinions of how to raise a child! Awesome!
My parents, when I was a baby, decided they wouldn't use that "baby voice" to talk to me that most parents used with their babies. Instead they spoke to me, before I could speak, as if they were speaking to an adult. As a result I could string simple sentences together well before most children learn to do so (my mom used to talk about how I would surprise people by asking "how are you today?" when they would bend down and coo-coo into my stroller/crib).
The key, I think, was that by talking as normal people do I was able to pick it up quicker and almost skip over the whole "baby-speech" phase entirely. This, I hope, is much the same as what you are doing with your children! By treating them as responsible humans, you are giving them a strong indication as to what a responsible human is. Thus they can pick up those skills far quicker than if you treated them as a child.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: trendal]
#4095919 - 04/25/05 04:10 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I sometimes think it's a good idea to give them a little more than I think they can handle and then keep an eye on them to make sure they don't fuck up too badly. That way they won't be limited by my expectations but they will still be safe. They'll probably learn more that way too.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: trendal]
#4095935 - 04/25/05 04:16 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hue you basically pinned the tail on my opinions
your opinions = donkey's hind end? (sorry, but you set yourself up there!)
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: Swami]
#4095949 - 04/25/05 04:19 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Hue you basically pinned the tail on my opinions
your opinions = donkey's hind end? (sorry, but you set yourself up there!)
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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..
Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
   
Trip Report
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: trendal]
#4095971 - 04/25/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have a friend who is a physics teacher at a University. He decided to not dumb down his speach for his children. Needless to say his vocabulary is technical...almost needlessly so. When his kid was 4 he sounded like a professor. It was cool...but very weird. I was never concious of using baby-talk...I guess we just talked normal to them. They all talked and read a little early.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: Diploid]
#4096019 - 04/25/05 04:32 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Don't get me wrong...spanking (not abuse) can have a place as a last resort punishment. As a young parent I relied on it a bit too much (that is what my parents did), and I hit the point where it did not work. My kids thought it was no biggie...so I had to get creative. I guess the last spanking I handed out was over 10 years ago. I am also demanding of them. If they wish to maintain their privileges (movies, computer, social life) they have to meet a high academic and behavioral standard. So, while I can be strict, I never say "Just because" I always have a rational explanation for my actions. I will also hear a rebuttal provided some respect is shown.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Sounds like you're a damn good parent to me.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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