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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Cordyceps, Herb Grinder, Paul Stamets, Scales

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Invisiblearmedia
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Make your own medicinal mushroom powders
    #4087822 - 04/23/05 09:38 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I recently ordered some medicinal mushroom powder to take as supplements (Reishi, Maitake & Cordyceps), and noticed that the vendor made this claim: "To assure the best of the mycelium and fruit body, the mycelium is grown to the start of mushroom formation, so the end product contains a broad spectrum of medicinal constituents not found in most other mushroom products. Freeze drying and powdering assures easy digestion and high bioavailability of medicinal components."

Curious to know exactly what this meant, I asked about it, and they confirmed my thinking, that the fungi are grown on grain, and after the grain is mostly digested, it is freeze dried and ground to a fine powder.

Now one might wonder what percentage of the powder is undigested grain and not mycelium, but presumably it could be incubated to the point that most of the grain had been consumed. There would perhaps be some small percentage left, but most would have been converted to mycelium.

I'm not sure about the claim that there would be more "medicinal components" in this kind of material. I would imagine that fruitbodies might have a different spectrum of constituents than mycelium. Different, though not necessarily better or stronger.

Anyway, the most interesting aspect of all this is that it would be easy to produce these kind of powders oneself, since all you need to do is inoculate grain and let it colonize. Freeze drying would be difficult, but presumably drying with low heat would give a comparable result.

Anyone still have a healthy Cordyceps culture out there I can work with?

- A

Ps. By the way, I'm pretty sure all of these powders are produced by Fungi Perfecti, regardless of the vendor.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: armedia]
    #4087962 - 04/23/05 11:24 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I wonder about this as well.  If you leave jars of grain for months, you can still break it up into individual grains.  It seems like there would have to be a significant 'grain' component if you were to freeze dry or otherwise prepare the material.  Now if the 'producers' had big containers growing up liquid cultures, they could presumably make preparations from straight mycelium.  It was a long time ago, but I asked Mr. Stamets himself about growing cordyceps, and I *think* he said they only grow it on grain and make the extracts from there.  It seems like it would be mostly a 'grain extraction', though. Maybe not.
I also remember reading in a couple of places [i.e. grain of salt time] that at least for cordyceps, the extracts from mycelium were comparable to that of the fruit bodies.  I don't know if it's true for Maitake or Reishi. . .but we know it's not true for psilocybes :wink:
Let me know if you come across a known Cordyceps!  It's an elusive culture, hard to prove as being "real".


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: Suntzu]
    #4088380 - 04/23/05 02:36 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

When I was looking for data on extracting liquid cultures I came across this:
http://sci.cancerresearchuk.org/labs/med_mush/final_pdfs/chapt5.pdf

pg82-86


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4088390 - 04/23/05 02:39 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

If you sold an extract with "organically made Krestin, Letinan, or Sonofilan" would you be subject to the Controlled Substances Act?


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Offlinewideweb
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4090763 - 04/24/05 04:54 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Krestin, Letinan, or Sonofilan etc are not medicines. You do not have to prove nor efficacy neither safety.

Is there a method to standardize and normalize the active medicinals in liquid culture, grain culture or fruitbodies?


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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: wideweb]
    #4090933 - 04/24/05 09:07 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

hey guys... medicinal mushroom powders are not dried fruitbodies/mycelium... its a dried extract of them.. i believe this it how they do it, as medicinal is my trade/focus i have researched this extensivelly but still have MUCH to learn...

to make your own medicinal mushroom powder from the fruitbodies you simply make a tea with them, say about 5x the water as the fruitbodies... then strain the water, add more water, and decoct once again... then strain the second batch of water... discard the mushrooms after this, they should have been lightly simmered in warm water for at least 4-8 hours, i usually do it for days.. then take your liquid and start gently evaporating it... once it gets down to a very small amount you will start to notice floaty stuff in there... when you get to a very small amount, so as not to burn, move it to a double boiler to get it down to the last little bit... it will turn out to be this paste like substance... christopher hobbs in his book medicinal mushrooms an exploration of history and tradition(i think thats what its called) has this recipe in it.. he adds some flour to the final mixture and encapsulates it.. i imagine that the same process could be done with mycelium... the process of fruiting in the jar is called invitro fruiting and i believe its a good way to go about it.. i will experiment furthur, i have some shitake/maitake incubating that i want to fruit invitro and make an extract from...

for liquid extracts i recommend doing a two part extract..
first tincture the mushrooms with a high alchohol content.
for those who are not familiar with tincturing.. try to break up the mushroom (fresh if possible) as much as you can, grinding it would be ideal but i have not found a way to do this yet, put the broken up mushrooms in a jar and completely cover with a 50/50 alchohol/water mixture.. we buy organic grain alchohol which has a 190proof, 95% alchohol content, but organic vodka will do the trick just nice.. so now you have a jar of mushroom/alchohol.. shake this everyday for 4-6 weeks... after that strain threw a cheese cloth and squeeze out as much of the alchohol as possible, then add the mushrooms to a pot of water, again maybe 5x the water as the mushrooms, simmer them for another 4-8 hours and strain, evaporate the water till you get the same amount of this decoction as you have the tincture.. then add them back together again for a 25% alchohol content tincture. this is a common way for making medicinal mushroom tinctures and i believe works GREAT! yes, it is a process.. but these mushrooms hold so much medicine and potential for so much healing help...

have fun and if there is any questions feel free to PM me..


--------------------
"listening for the secret.. searching for the sound.."


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4091438 - 04/24/05 01:55 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

YidakiMan said:
If you sold an extract with "organically made Krestin, Letinan, or Sonofilan" would you be subject to the Controlled Substances Act?




You can list whatever ingredients you want as long as you don't start advertising specific healing and curing effects. At that point you are proclaiming medical benefit and are thereby marketing a "drug". This you cannot do without proper authorisation from the FDA who are owned and operated by the pharmaceutical industry among others.

IOW, you sell your product to an already enlightened crowd. The good news is these are the people who understand and are prepared to pay the requisite prices. The bad news is that any "enlightenment crusade" would be best kept as separate as possible from the marketing.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4091446 - 04/24/05 01:58 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for that link, that's a good pdf.

I think for any extraction, a well-cleaned coffee grinder helps a lot. . .


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Offlinemattymonkey
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: Suntzu]
    #4093386 - 04/25/05 12:05 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

any ideas on growing just mycelium? i know you can grow small amounts in a sort of LC... stirring for a few days till the myc grows on top, then filtering... but large scale? liquid fermentation seems the easiest way to get just the myc, ie seperate it from the substrate... thats a great pdf btw thanks... super informative, think ill be delving into it as much as i can.. i lack some serious chem knowledge but have some resources i can look into... so interesting! thanks!


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Invisiblearmedia
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: mattymonkey]
    #4094249 - 04/25/05 07:32 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Just to reiterate, the powders I bought are _not_extracts, they are ground mycelium/substrate. Liquid culture may well be more efficient, but it seems that this system is far simpler than going to all that trouble. If FP and others are doing it this way, you can be sure they have a good reason.

It still leaves the question as to what the final ratio of mycelium to substrate is. I have to say that it does not look like there is much grain left in the mix. From one species to another there is a drastic difference in color. You would think that a high percentage of grain would give the products a more uniform appearance.

Now as for making extracts from these powders, its on my list . . .

- A


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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: armedia]
    #4094261 - 04/25/05 08:02 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

wow! so interesting... ill follow this thread as it grows, please update with your experiences... these medicines are so powerful and truly just what people need in this day.. thanks!


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Invisiblearmedia
Dikaryon

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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: armedia]
    #4094675 - 04/25/05 12:04 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Well I did some more investigating, and it seems the picture is more complex than I thought.

I found this website http://www.immunoceuticals.nwbotanicals.org/ which may well be the original source of the material I purchased, since they make very similar claims about their products.

They even show pictures of the growing process, where they do actually fruit the mushrooms in vitro, to produce the "full-spectrum" mycelium powder.

Shiitake:



Cordyceps:


See this page for the pics and an explanation: http://www.immunoceuticals.nwbotanicals.org/fullspectrum_2.htm

They also have a journal article which gives the lowdown on how they produce their cordyceps powder http://www.immunoceuticals.nwbotanicals.org/lexicon/cordyceps/hybridcordyceps.htm , where they compare the amounts of undigested grain remaining when using various grains. Apparently the best results were achieved using a mixture of millet and white milo. They also add vegetable oil as a supplement.

There's lots to check out here, and lots of inspiration for future experiments. I'd really love to know what grains they grow lignicolous species like shiitake on to get them to fruit in vitro like that.

- A


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Invisiblearmedia
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: armedia]
    #4094693 - 04/25/05 12:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

They seem to be affiliated with this company: http://www.alohamedicinals.com/bulk.htm

Here's a list of the species they produce in this way:

Cordyceps sinensis - many strains Caterpillar Fungus
Cordyceps sobolifela
Cordyceps capitata
Cordyceps militaris
Cordyceps ophioglossoides
Agaricus augustus
Agaricus blazei ABM or Royal Sun Agaricus
Agaricus liliceps
Agaricus subrufescens
Flammulina velutipes Enokitake
Fomes fomentarius
Ganoderma applanatum
Ganoderma lucidiumReishi
Ganoderma tsugai Red Reishi
Grifola frondosa Maitake
Hericium erinaceaLions Mane
Hypsizygus ulmarius
Hypsizygus marmorius
Inonotus obliquus Chaga
Laetiporus sulphureus
Lentinula edodesShiitake
Lepiota procera
Monascus purpurea Red Yeast Rice
Morchella angusticeps Morel
Morchella deliciosa Morel
Morchella esculenta Morel
Phellinus lentius
Piptoporus betulinus
Pleurotus citrinopiliatus
Pleurotus cystidiosus
Pleurotus djamor
Pleurotus eryngeii
Pleurotus ostreatus Oyster Mushroom
Pleurotus pulminarius
Pleurotus tuber-regium
Polyporus umbellatus
Poris cocos Fu Ling
Schizophyllum commune
Stopharia rugoso-annulata
Trametes versicolor Turkey Tails
Tremella fuciformis
Tremella mesenterica

Curiouser and curiouser . . .

A


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InvisibleSpeeker

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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: armedia]
    #4094722 - 04/25/05 12:28 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Roger is developing in vitro reishi method right now..
On that other site is more about it..
http://forums.mycotopia.net/showthread.php?t=3700

:sun:


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Make your own medicinal mushroom powders [Re: armedia]
    #4095442 - 04/25/05 04:29 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That cordyceps page was very cool reading.  Snake venom agar!  :eek:


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Offlinedapri
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Various mushroom powders [Re: mattymonkey]
    #4238494 - 05/31/05 01:24 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

We supply various mushroom powders:

- Shiitake Mushroom Powders
- Maitake Mushroom Powders
- Brazil Mushroom Powders
- Monkeyhead Mushroom Powders
- Reishi mushroom Powders
- Oyster mushroom Powders

For details, pls visit www.freshes.com.


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Re: Various mushroom powders [Re: dapri]
    #4239127 - 05/31/05 09:10 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

neat, maybe you can tell us how you make them?

are you able to buy bulk mushrooms for processing from growers here?

there is a strong need for a distributer for small time medicinal mushroom growers, it is a viable business option for people here but getting into the market seems to be the hardest thing to start. growing the mushrooms we can do, selling what we grow is another thing...

can you tell us a little about how you started? where the information to get this all going came from?

thanks for your post this thread needed to be relived :smile:


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Re: Various mushroom powders [Re: mattymonkey]
    #4314709 - 06/19/05 08:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You buy them from China. Mushroom city is a good source. They sell them in neat glass jars and they send them in the form of powders.
If you can buy it for cheaper than you grow it then buy it.

Hey Mattymonkey Talk to me some more about this. I also want to get in the market and I see that a distributership is the only way you can offer a wide enough product line to service customers. Or a network of independent growers who posted there stock of mushrooms.

With there cordyceps they do liquid cultures, however in mushworld I read what seems a legitimate criticisim of liquid culture. That is that because fungi digests by excreting enzymes to brake down the nutrients and then absorb those nutrients, many of the interesting compounds are extracelular. If you just strained the cells from the broth you would only get what is going on in the cell. Something like cordyceps is harvested as the whole catipillar, thats all the myc and the stuff it excreted. Seems like the grain growing would give you the fullest spectrum of metabolites.


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